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Old 03-17-2016, 01:18 PM
 
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Since the Bible did not exist until centuries after his death, I'm pretty sure not. Heck, the Gospels weren't even written for several decades. And his ministry was essentially that of modifying the Old Testament.

So, the New Testament wasn't written yet and the Old Testament had to be changed. I'm pretty sure he wasn't dying for the Bible, but rather for our sins.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Aren't we all cult leaders looking for a following?
No, I don't need the hassle.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Since the Bible did not exist until centuries after his death, I'm pretty sure not. Heck, the Gospels weren't even written for several decades. And his ministry was essentially that of modifying the Old Testament.

So, the New Testament wasn't written yet and the Old Testament had to be changed. I'm pretty sure he wasn't dying for the Bible, but rather for our sins.
Actually, the Bible as it existed at the time of Jesus consisted of the Old Testament Scriptures. The New Testament Scriptures were completed before the end of the first century A.D., and therefore the Bible was complete at that time. Don't confuse the assembling of all 27 books of the New Testament under one cover at a later time with the fact of their existence prior to that. As well, the doubts of some people in the early church regarding some of the New Testament documents which finally were recognized as belonging in the canon has no bearing on the fact that they existed and that under divine guidance they would eventually be recognized as being of God and therefore canonical.

But yes, Jesus died for our sins.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Actually, the Bible as it existed at the time of Jesus consisted of the Old Testament Scriptures. The New Testament Scriptures were completed before the end of the first century A.D., and therefore the Bible was complete at that time. Don't confuse the assembling of all 27 books of the New Testament under one cover at a later time with the fact of their existence prior to that. As well, the doubts of some people in the early church regarding some of the New Testament documents which finally were recognized as belonging in the canon has no bearing on the fact that they existed and that under divine guidance they would eventually be recognized as being of God and therefore canonical.

But yes, Jesus died for our sins.
Not true. The Bible as we know it wasn't assembled until the Fourth Century, AD.

And, in truth, despite his statement in Matthew that he wasn't there to outlaw the Old Testament, he flatly contradicts it elsewhere. For example, in Matthew 5:38, he states, "Yu have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." This is an explicit overturning of Deuteronomy 19:21, "You must show no pity for the guilty! Your rule should be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

Further, during the intervening time between Christ's death and resurrection and Constantine there were a large number of gospel writings the were eventually deemed non-canonical. So to simply state that the Bible was set by the year 100 is to really ignore the history of how the Bible was formed.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Not true. The Bible as we know it wasn't assembled until the Fourth Century, AD.

And, in truth, despite his statement in Matthew that he wasn't there to outlaw the Old Testament, he flatly contradicts it elsewhere. For example, in Matthew 5:38, he states, "Yu have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." This is an explicit overturning of Deuteronomy 19:21, "You must show no pity for the guilty! Your rule should be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

Further, during the intervening time between Christ's death and resurrection and Constantine there were a large number of gospel writings the were eventually deemed non-canonical. So to simply state that the Bible was set by the year 100 is to really ignore the history of how the Bible was formed.
I just got though saying that the Bible wasn't assembled until later. I also said that that is not the determining factor in the completion of the Bible. The New Testament was complete when the last of the 27 Books that make up the New Testament was written. And that was before the end of the first century. The assembling of all the books under one cover at a later time is a completely different issue.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which He did. But Jesus was contrasting the standards of Christ's kingdom with the Mosaic Law. Jesus was offering to bring in the Messianic Kingdom after going to the cross if Israel would recognize Him as the Messiah. And He was teaching the standards of the Kingdom even while fulfilling the requirements of the Mosaic Law.

From God's standpoint, the New Testament was complete with the writing of the 27 books before the end of the first century, all of which would be eventually be recognized as being of God and therefore belonging in the canon. Twenty-one of those NT documents were recognized as canonical before the end of the second century and are listed in the Muratorian canon which is dated to c. A.D. 175. The remaining six books were later recognizes as belonging in the canon. The arguing about which books were canonical and which were not is irrelevant to the reality that God authorized the writing of certain specific documents which the church would eventually come to recognize as canonical. But all 27 of those books had been written before the end of the first century, and therefore the New Testament was complete by that time. One of the criteria that the early church used in recognizing the canonicity of a NT document was that it had to have been written by an apostle or by someone closely associated with an apostle. That means that no book written after the time of the apostles could be recognized as being of God and belonging in the NT canon.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I just got though saying that the Bible wasn't assembled until later. I also said that that is not the determining factor in the completion of the Bible. The New Testament was complete when the last of the 27 Books that make up the New Testament was written. And that was before the end of the first century. The assembling of all the books under one cover at a later time is a completely different issue.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which He did. But Jesus was contrasting the standards of Christ's kingdom with the Mosaic Law. Jesus was offering to bring in the Messianic Kingdom after going to the cross if Israel would recognize Him as the Messiah. And He was teaching the standards of the Kingdom even while fulfilling the requirements of the Mosaic Law.

From God's standpoint, the New Testament was complete with the writing of the 27 books before the end of the first century, all of which would be eventually be recognized as being of God and therefore belonging in the canon. Twenty-one of those NT documents were recognized as canonical before the end of the second century and are listed in the Muratorian canon which is dated to c. A.D. 175. The remaining six books were later recognizes as belonging in the canon. The arguing about which books were canonical and which were not is irrelevant to the reality that God authorized the writing of certain specific documents which the church would eventually come to recognize as canonical. But all 27 of those books had been written before the end of the first century, and therefore the New Testament was complete by that time. One of the criteria that the early church used in recognizing the canonicity of a NT document was that it had to have been written by an apostle or by someone closely associated with an apostle. That means that no book written after the time of the apostles could be recognized as being of God and belonging in the NT canon.
Really? Do we have a notarized statement on this?
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Really? Do we have a notarized statement on this?
Well, if you don't believe that God had anything to do with overseeing which NT documents were to be finally included in the NT canon, and that it was an entirely manmade affair, that's your opinion. And I'll leave you with that.
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Old 03-17-2016, 04:44 PM
 
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he died becaused he walked in like he owned the joint on a major religous holiday. Look at what they do around the world when people do that. religous or non religous. Back in '78 my pop told me "they don't think like us in the middle east so don't treat them like they do."
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Old 03-17-2016, 04:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Well, if you don't believe that God had anything to do with overseeing which NT documents were to be finally included in the NT canon, and that it was an entirely manmade affair, that's your opinion. And I'll leave you with that.
Well, given the preponderance of scriptural contradictions, I'm awfully sure that it might have been inspired by God, but certainly wasn't written or even overseen by God. And he certainly didn't mandate its content.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:38 PM
 
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Default Let The Bible Speak For Itself ENOUGH

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Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Soooo..... Christ died just for the 100% Bible believers?

Is that what you believe, Tony?
What in Matthew 5:17-20 NOT SAYING THAT ?


What in Matthew 7:21-24 NOT SAYING THAT ?


What in 2 Timothy 3:16 NOT SAYING THAT ?


Who can be a coward with Romans 10:9 to justify mocking Romans 6:1 ?


Who can be self righteous with Ephesians 2:8 to justify mocking John 8:31 ?


God inspired his apostle to put 2 Timothy 2:15 in the bible because of rookie mistakes like this.


God inspired his apostle to put 2 Cor. 4:3 in the bible because of rookies that will stay rookies on issues like this.


God inspired his apostle to put John 8:44 in the bible so you know who this rookie actually IS.
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