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Old 03-17-2016, 11:46 PM
 
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Scripture says the son of mans life is a ransom for many. It says God's word is life. So doesn't it make sense that the word of God is the ransom for those who do good? After all Jesus said that all those who do good will rise to live.

Mark 10:45 NRS

45 "For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many."

"The words I spoke to you are spirit and life."

"Those who do good to the resurrection of life."
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Old 03-18-2016, 08:26 AM
 
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"I came so my sheep would have life and have it abundantly." (Son of man)
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Scripture says the son of mans life is a ransom for many. It says God's word is life. So doesn't it make sense that the word of God is the ransom for those who do good? After all Jesus said that all those who do good will rise to live.

Mark 10:45 NRS

45 "For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many."

"The words I spoke to you are spirit and life."

"Those who do good to the resurrection of life."
In that He gave His SOUL a ransom for many, but in 1 Timothy 2:6 it broadens the outcome of that ransom by stating "He have HIMSELF a ransom for ALL.

Now then, the phrase "gave His life" means He died for them.

It is improper to take a word such as "life" (i.e., "give His life") and apply it to every other place where "life" is used. Giving your life is not the same thing as "the words . . . are life."
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:38 AM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,966,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
In that He gave His SOUL a ransom for many, but in 1 Timothy 2:6 it broadens the outcome of that ransom by stating "He have HIMSELF a ransom for ALL.

Now then, the phrase "gave His life" means He died for them.

It is improper to take a word such as "life" (i.e., "give His life") and apply it to every other place where "life" is used. Giving your life is not the same thing as "the words . . . are life."
When it comes to the word of God from the mouth of God, life is His word.

Notice where it says the son of man came to serve but then He describes serving as giving His life. Notice Jesus said He was born to testify the truth. So He came to spread the truth which is the word of God and to serve. Taking those two verses shows He did not come to die physically but to give his sheep the word of God so they in turn can do likewise. That is why He gave His words to His disciples and sent them as He was sent but people think the twelve so called disciples did what was expected. Not so.

"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify the truth."

"I came so my sheep would have life and have it abundantly."
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Old 03-18-2016, 01:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
When it comes to the word of God from the mouth of God, life is His word.

Notice where it says the son of man came to serve but then He describes serving as giving His life. Notice Jesus said He was born to testify the truth. So He came to spread the truth which is the word of God and to serve. Taking those two verses shows He did not come to die physically but to give his sheep the word of God so they in turn can do likewise. That is why He gave His words to His disciples and sent them as He was sent but people think the twelve so called disciples did what was expected. Not so.

"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify the truth."

"I came so my sheep would have life and have it abundantly."
Jesus told His disciples over and over that He had to die and John stated "behold the Lamb of God which is taking away the sin of the world." Jesus was the sacrificial lamb.

The high priest Caiaphas stated concerning Christ:
Joh 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
Joh 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

The very term "give His life" means die.

Mat_20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 12:31-33 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. (32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.

There are plenty of scriptures both in the Old and New Testament testifying that Christ had to die for us.
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Old 03-18-2016, 01:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Jesus told His disciples over and over that He had to die and John stated "behold the Lamb of God which is taking away the sin of the world." Jesus was the sacrificial lamb.

The high priest Caiaphas stated concerning Christ:
Joh 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
Joh 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

The very term "give His life" means die.

Mat_20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 12:31-33 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. (32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.

There are plenty of scriptures both in the Old and New Testament testifying that Christ had to die for us.
None of them say physical life. Remember Jesus spoke so only His true followers would have understanding.

John 12: 32 Should read as follows;

"And If I am exalted in the land I will draw all men to myself."

Whoever wrote line 33 was mistaken.

Drawing all men to the son of man is making all men servants and prophets.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
None of them say physical life. Remember Jesus spoke so only His true followers would have understanding.

John 12: 32 Should read as follows;

"And If I am exalted in the land I will draw all men to myself."

Whoever wrote line 33 was mistaken.

Drawing all men to the son of man is making all men servants and prophets.
If, as you say, Christ did not die for our sins, then you cannot be saved for Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 15:1-5 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which
also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining
what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly." (3) For I give over
to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, (4)
and that He was entombed, and that He has been roused the third day according to the scriptures, (5)
and that He was seen by Cephas, thereupon by the twelve."
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If, as you say, Christ did not die for our sins, then you cannot be saved for Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 15:1-5 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which
also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining
what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly." (3) For I give over
to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, (4)
and that He was entombed, and that He has been roused the third day according to the scriptures, (5)
and that He was seen by Cephas, thereupon by the twelve."
I cannot be saved?

Paul was not saved. Jesus said to abide and remain in His word that He gave His followers His words and sent them as He was sent. Paul did no such thing.

I am the salvation, and the life.

I am the light of the world. No one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because he will possess the light of life.

It is written in the prophets;

"The Lord is the strength of His people, the saving refuge of His anointed."
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Old 03-18-2016, 08:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
In that He gave His SOUL a ransom for many, but in 1 Timothy 2:6 it broadens the outcome of that ransom by stating "He have HIMSELF a ransom for ALL.
."
True, Jesus died for all - 1st John 1:7, but since ALL people would Not end up accepting Jesus that is why Jesus' ransom covers MANY - Matthew 20:28 - and does Not include all. The people of Psalms 92:7 are Not part of the many.

What does Hebrews 6:4-6 tell us ? besides Matthew 12:32 ?
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Old 03-18-2016, 08:14 PM
 
4,592 posts, read 2,273,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Scripture says the son of mans life is a ransom for many. It says God's word is life. So doesn't it make sense that the word of God is the ransom for those who do good? After all Jesus said that all those who do good will rise to live.
Mark 10:45 NRS
45 "For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many."
"The words I spoke to you are spirit and life."
"Those who do good to the resurrection of life."
Yes, after the dead are resurrected - John 5:28-29 - the ones who do good after they are resurrected can gain everlasting life.

In the meantime, except for those people committing the unforgivable sin - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, they are covered by Romans 6:7 that the dead are freed or acquitted from sin. That does Not make the dead as now being innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick. So, what a person does ' after ' they are resurrected will determine who will live forever.
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