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Hello all,
I really would like to hear different perspectives on this. I know that to many, the infallibility of the bible is an important part of their faith.
I'll start things off by saying as a born again, washed in the blood follower of Jesus and citizen of the heavenly kingdom I do think the gospel message is loud and clear (That is, Jesus was born of a virgin by the seed of God, was sinless yet died for the sins of the world, and rose again to destroy the power of death and the grave) but I also believe there are contradictions, especially in English translations. Having said that, I think it would be fair to ask me "If you don't believe in inerrancy, how can you be sure of everything you just stated?
Well, that's something I'm going to have to think about... how do I know for sure?
For me personally, errancy of the bible doesn't hurt my faith at all, since I have a relationship with God and the anointing teaches me all things BUT I do understand the concerns of those who believe if you take inerrancy away, you end up with an 'anything goes' type Christianity.
Please keep discussion civil - I'm not out to start a war here! We are brothers and sisters and I think we can be pointed in our remarks without being rude. I'm rather new here, so if this has been discussed at length before - someone can point me in the right direction. Again, I have no desire for hostilities, just to learn and share - discuss pros and cons/evidences ect.
If atheists want to get involved, fine - I love to be challenged (and I love atheists in general) but there are forum rules about being respectful and kind to one another so...
The letter killeth, the spirit maketh alive.
Scripture worship can limit the believer and they can become book bound.
Scripture is a compass, the Spirit is the vehicle that takes us to places we never dreamed of.
Man has meddled with the books of the bible. Some translations are not worthy to be called scripture.
The most inspired translations are a blessing to mankind when incorporated with the guidance of the holy spirit. Without that guidance the message is limited to the readers understanding or leanings.
The letter killeth, the spirit maketh alive.
Scripture worship can limit the believer and they can become book bound.
Scripture is a compass, the Spirit is the vehicle that takes us to places we never dreamed of.
Man has meddled with the books of the bible. Some translations are not worthy to be called scripture.
The most inspired translations are a blessing to mankind when incorporated with the guidance of the holy spirit. Without that guidance the message is limited to the readers understanding or leanings.
godspeed,
freedom
Freedom, I don't know you (have only read a few of your posts) but once again you've pretty much nailed my thoughts on the subject. One reason I've never worried about it much is because: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (I Corinthians 2:14).
So I figured, fine - only God causes someone to understand His truth - biblical or otherwise. Recently though I've come to realize that the dogma surrounding infallibility has become bible worship, and so was compelled to point this out to various friends/pastor and wow. There's some pretty extreme stuff out there!
I'll quote myself from the 'tolerance' thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888
I saw it quoted in an earlier thread "When that which is perfect is come" and I am aware that the passage is interpreted by some to mean the bible. I consider this to be an absurd interpretation. "Love (agape) never fails" is the premise.
A book is not and cannot be perfect and certainly cannot be perfect love.
This is a person being described, not a book.
Jesus, nor Paul, nor any other prophesied of a perfect group of 66 books which would guide us into all truth. They spoke of a Spirit which would guide us into all truth. Without the Spirit of the words written, history shows that the 'letter' of the bible can even be used to cause great harm.
I fear the church has largely fallen into bibliolatry, that is: bible worship.
(quote) the inerrancy message is a thinly disguised version of "you may not disagree with me." The issue is power, control, and the right to dictate who may do what and when; to tell other Christians what they may and may not believe. This is so foreign to the message of Christ, that it should shock all true Christians. As the old hymn says, "the Church's one foundation is Jesus Christ her Lord." The Bible is our primary source for knowledge about Christ, but it is not our foundation. (end quote)
I've studied a bit and have leaned a few things - such as the end of Mark not being in the early transcripts and the 1 John 5:8 passage - same story:
"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one".
So, those of you who adhere to infallibility, do you just consider these 'facts' hoaxes or what?
blessings,
Byron
Growing up in the Nazarene church we used the NIV almost exclusively. There was one very dear lady who used the KVJ because, "That's how they talked in Jesus' day". What can I add to that except to say, "Bless her heart".
In my current church (a fundamentalist independent Baptist) they use the KVJ and do not want anything else read from the pulpit. I asked our Elders about this and one of them replied, "Because it is tried and true". Quite often, though, my Pastor and the Elders often say, "...a better translation might have been..." when reading a certain passage of scripture from the KJV. This is because they also use the Strong's.
They recognize that there are meaning changes that occur during the translation process. The official stance in my church would be, "The Bible is the inspired word of God and is inerrant in its original form". I believe this to be true.
Recently I've wondered quite a bit about how the doctrine of the translators can affect the outcome of the translation. When a word can have two meanings, how do they choose a specific one? How do they know which to use? (Rhetorical). Even then, meanings of certain words can change over time. Think about how much the meaning of the word "gay" has changed in the last 50 years.
In the end I trust God to give all of the information needed. Until now I've never heard of such a concept as "Scripture worship".
I've always approached the Word cautiously and not allowed myself to go too far with any one verse. The application of the Word on our lives should be as a whole, not in pieces.
So the mention of the conflict over one manuscript and another(the Mark Passage mentioned) is not a huge issue with me.
In the end, how much does the scripture change with or without that passage? Answer: Not much, if any.
The Bible is God's Word. It's perfect. Someone implied folks like me might be 'Scripture worshipers" in the context that the word worship means : "extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem" I'd agree with that.
In the beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:1
Jesus is the Word made flesh. I do indeed worship the Word. I've also got my entire life staked on it. Yeah, I'd say it's pretty reliable.
Hello all,
I really would like to hear different perspectives on this. I know that to many, the infallibility of the bible is an important part of their faith.
I'll start things off by saying as a born again, washed in the blood follower of Jesus and citizen of the heavenly kingdom I do think the gospel message is loud and clear (That is, Jesus was born of a virgin by the seed of God, was sinless yet died for the sins of the world, and rose again to destroy the power of death and the grave) but I also believe there are contradictions, especially in English translations. Having said that, I think it would be fair to ask me "If you don't believe in inerrancy, how can you be sure of everything you just stated?
Well, that's something I'm going to have to think about... how do I know for sure?
For me personally, errancy of the bible doesn't hurt my faith at all, since I have a relationship with God and the anointing teaches me all things BUT I do understand the concerns of those who believe if you take inerrancy away, you end up with an 'anything goes' type Christianity.
Please keep discussion civil - I'm not out to start a war here! We are brothers and sisters and I think we can be pointed in our remarks without being rude. I'm rather new here, so if this has been discussed at length before - someone can point me in the right direction. Again, I have no desire for hostilities, just to learn and share - discuss pros and cons/evidences ect.
If atheists want to get involved, fine - I love to be challenged (and I love atheists in general) but there are forum rules about being respectful and kind to one another so...
blessings,
Byron
God's Word is perfect and flawless. It states that within the Proverbs. The spirit of the Word is what makes it flawless, not man's ability to translate. If read and discerned through Spirit, you will find no errors in it.
God's Word is perfect and flawless. It states that within the Proverbs. The spirit of the Word is what makes it flawless, not man's ability to translate. If read and discerned through Spirit, you will find no errors in it.
God's word is perfect. The different translations of the bible do have errors and flaws. They have man's finger prints on them. Misinterpretations and watered down perceptions.
I was not saying anyone personally has Scripture worship on this forum, I do know some who do, they take their understandings or their pastors teachings and ignore the Spirit of God that leads us into All truth.
THe word of God is written on our hearts, not just on paper. I'll trust the Word written on my heart.
THe words of the Bible are a great inspiration and the most perfect of documents that we possess, nonetheless, they are flawed by man over the years. Especially the most recent of translations.
godspeed,
freedom
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We are brothers and sisters and I think we can be pointed in our remarks without being rude. I'm rather new here, so if this has been discussed at length before - someone can point me in the right direction. Again, I have no desire for hostilities, just to learn and share - discuss pros and cons/evidences ect.
