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Old 03-31-2016, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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How Jesus Handles Being Given Everybody And Everything
Understanding Universal Salvation Part One


Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!


QUOTES FROM CHURCH FATHERS
http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/churchfathersquotes.htm


Tracing Universalist Thought Through Church History
http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html
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Old 03-31-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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DESTRUCTION IS NOT ETERNAL
Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind!!!
3. Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both ARE completely true.
We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth) right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example. This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.
To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.
If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived pagan inherited ideas.

Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
Oh my goodness righteous people perish!
Does that mean they go to be tormented forever?
Does that mean they don't get eternal life?
How are they spared from evil since they obviously perished?

Perish simply means to be destroyed, to die, to be lost. The actual Greek word is apollymi.
Guess what: Jesus came to save those who are apollymi.
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost (apollymi - same word).
So Jesus will save those who perish. How does He do this? By destroying death! When death is finally destroyed, all will be resurrected, and all will be alive! Jesus is life!

"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?"
What Does it Mean to "Perish?"

Last edited by rodgertutt; 03-31-2016 at 05:08 PM..
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Old 03-31-2016, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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ELECTION
Eventually everyone will be saved.
Because men have failed to see and understand the doctrine of election, it has propagated false ideas of salvation. Many seek to limit it to believers, but they overlook the significance of the double statement.

"In 1Tim. 4:9-11 we are told that the living God `is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of those who believe,' and with this 1Tim. 2: 4-6 concurs. Many seek to limit it to believers, but they overlook the significance of the double statement. That there is a special salvation for believers is plainly stated, but this does not limit the other part of the statement, rather does it emphasize it. The salvation of believers is a special work; they are a special class in the `all mankind.' God's will for mankind is salvation, not as an experimental salvation toying with the will and choice of men, but as their Disposer – God.
My dear brethren, let us embrace this glorious truth which God has revealed for us. Let it so become a part of us that our lives will be reflecting it. Let it fill our hearts with the love of God and His glorious Son. Let us be rendering praise to the living God, the universal Creator and Reconciler, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
`To Him be glory for the eons! Amen!' " - E.G.Jones

REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS - J. Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/allinall.html

At the present time salvation is enjoyed only by those who believe; the balance of mankind will be saved at the consummation. A savior is one who actually saves. God is the savior of all mankind, not just the ‘potential’ savior. When the truth concerning the eons displaces the error about eternity, judgment and grace are seen to work harmoniously together till each reaches its predestined goal. All the threats of punishment to follow the judgment of the wicked can be accepted at their full, dreadful value without doing violence to our innate sense of justice, and without denying the predictions of a final victory of grace.
Don Bast
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Old 03-31-2016, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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A SNIPPET FROM ALL IN ALL – A.E. KNOCH
“The terms translated ‘forever’ and ‘everlasting’ and ‘never’ are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Destruction, like salvation, is eonian. It is not the end or aim of God. God destroys nothing that He will not restore. He loses nothing that will not return to Him laden with praise and glory for Himself. Destruction is a passing process, not a finished goal. Through God it will work out the welfare of all of His creatures and the glory of our Saviour."

(Editor’s note: Scriptures that seem to disagree with this conclusion are addressed in chapter four of his book ALL IN ALL)
Lighthouse Library International - ALL IN ALL, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES

Understanding Universal Salvation Part One

https://www.godfire.net/Elwin/112_reasons_2Columns.html
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
According to Hebrews 2:14 B Jesus destroys Satan
According to Revelation 21:8 Satan ends up in second death
So, Gehenna and second death are fitting words for destruction, as in the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7
The everlasting punishment - 2nd Thessalsonians 1:9 - is everlasting destruction - Psalm 92:7; Matthew 25:46
Mankind has two choices to either ' repent ' or 'perish ' - 2nd Peter 3:9 - Perish meaning destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7
In western culture, we think of "destroy" and "destruction" as irremediable. The elements of the Greek word for "destroy" or "lost" (appollumi) are "from-whole-loose."

Jesus told His disciples to go to the lost/destroyed sheep:
Mat_10:6 Yet be going rather to the lost/destroyed sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus came to seek and save the lost/destroyed:
Luk 19:10 For the Son of Mankind came to seek and to save the lost/destroyed."

Mat_15:24 Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost/destroyed sheep of the house of Israel."

So destruction is often a pre-requisite to being saved by the Good Shephard who will seek the lost/destroyed sheep till He finds it and saves it.

In your verses above, the word "everlasting" should only be thought of as "lasting for an ever." And since the Bible tells us all the "evers/eons" will end, it cannot be eternal.

Psa 92:7 The wicked bud like herbage, And all contrivers of lawlessness blossom, But only that they be exterminated until the future,

They can't be destroyed eternally since we have God's word that all mankind will be saved because Christ ransomed all (1 Timothy 2:4-6).
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Question Question for you believers in et

There are thousands of Salvation Army officers in the world.
There are also thousands of lay people who attend Salvation Army meetings.
And there are thousands of people who attend the various Brethren Assemblies.

All of these people disobey Matthew 28:19
None of them believe in baptism.
QUESTION FOR YOU BELIEVERS IN ETERNAL TORMENT
Do you believe that all of these thousands of people will suffer forever?
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:12 PM
 
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Rodger, you know what I find interesting? Paul said this is faithful and worthy of all welcome that God will save all mankind and is all mankind's Saviour. So why do people reject it as being unfaithful and unworthy of welcome? I'll tell you way: They don't believe God..
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:19 PM
 
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How can those of Hebrews 6:4-6 be saved ?

How can those of Matthew 12:32 be saved ?

Who does Jesus chase away at Matthew 7:21-23 ?
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,838 times
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Quote:
How can those of Hebrews 6:4-6 be saved ?
How can those of Matthew 12:32 be saved ?
How everybody gets saved.
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE
People who don't think salvation is 100% by God, not just 100% “provided” by God like to be in the hands of their own "free" will. That is where they feel most secure.
IMO, that is the most basic difference between ETers and URs.
Just like in the case of Lydia, and Saul of Tarsus, our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart.

The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God's sovereign control.
We are saved when God wants us to be, no thanks to ourselves at all.

SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS DEBARRED
HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE
biblical studies: His Achievement Are We - Part 9 - Choosing What Is Choice
"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.
And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.
When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen.
This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God."

Repentance will occur when God lays hold on the sinner by His saving grace.

Quote:
Who does Jesus chase away at Matthew 7:21-23 ?
Sooner or later everyone will do the will of the Father and enter the kingdom of heaven.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
Chapter Eleven

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
AIN -- AINIOS

Dean Hough wrote “The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ.
The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).”
Dean Hough
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