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Old 02-03-2018, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
The true God= Deuteronomy 30:19---Life or DEATH--both are everlasting.
There are some pretty strange teachings being thrown around.
ANNIHILATION?
Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation):
A writing by Gary Amirault specifically refuting the arguments that seemingly support the idea that the Bible teaches annihilation and showing that the Bible teaches universal salvation instead.

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED? - No, they will be saved.
http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Knoch/salvatio.htm
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:29 PM
 
2,728 posts, read 848,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
After the goats, satan and fallen angels are destroyed forever in the lake of fire--All will be lovers of God. They prove it now.
I'll bet that sounds as crazy like someone explaining xenu from scientology to you.

Big LOL
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,679 times
Reputation: 245
Exclamation NOTHING gives me greater pleasure

NOTHING gives me greater pleasure than to guide people to the reasons why I see an infinitely different God in the Bible than the one I was taught in the several different eternal punishment churches I attended during years gone by and in the Bible school from which I graduated. I’m 79 years old.


CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin


CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
TLC - Download File, "Christ Triumphant", by Thomas Allin

Last edited by mensaguy; 04-19-2018 at 06:14 AM.. Reason: This post should have been in this thread to begin with.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:52 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
ANNIHILATION?
Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation):
A writing by Gary Amirault specifically refuting the arguments that seemingly support the idea that the Bible teaches annihilation and showing that the Bible teaches universal salvation instead.

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED? - No, they will be saved.
The Salvation of the Unbeliever, by A E Knoch

Your post is confusion.

Sheol( Hebrew) = Hades( Greek)= Hell( English)--the grave.
The lake of fire= the second death= the permanent death. Fire= destruction.

Rev clearly teaches those that do certain sins will be thrown into the lake of fire--No where in the bible does it state one will ever come out of there. The resurrection to earth after Har-mageddon, one can learn and apply Gods will for 1000 years with no satan influences--but satan will be released for a little while some will follow him into the lake of fire--they blew their eternal life in Gods kingdom right there--they will never get another chance.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
 
14,991 posts, read 7,530,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Your post is confusion.

Sheol( Hebrew) = Hades( Greek)= Hell( English)--the grave.
The lake of fire= the second death= the permanent death. Fire= destruction.

Rev clearly teaches those that do certain sins will be thrown into the lake of fire--No where in the bible does it state one will ever come out of there.
First, Revelation doesn't clearly teach anything. The best explanation I've ever heard of Rev, is that it describes an internal revelation of Christ within. But even that is a stretch, in my opinion. That being said, since you know that Revelation is, by it's very nature, a book full of symbolism, surely you don't take the "lake of fire" to be something literal?
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
I'll bet that sounds as crazy like someone explaining xenu from scientology to you.

Big LOL

Those that actually know the true God, knows this is the reality he set before all--Deut 30:19-- both will be everlasting.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:34 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 452,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Your post is confusion.

Sheol( Hebrew) = Hades( Greek)= Hell( English)--the grave.
The lake of fire= the second death= the permanent death. Fire= destruction.

Rev clearly teaches those that do certain sins will be thrown into the lake of fire--No where in the bible does it state one will ever come out of there. The resurrection to earth after Har-mageddon, one can learn and apply Gods will for 1000 years with no satan influences--but satan will be released for a little while some will follow him into the lake of fire--they blew their eternal life in Gods kingdom right there--they will never get another chance.
The lake of fire is not an actual place for individuals, it relates to judgement of corporate entities that are opposed to Gods kingdom that have built themselves up to rule the world. The beast (and it’s image), false prophet, which rule the kings of the earth and is ridden by “Babylon” which is made up of many entities/daughters that are opposed to Gods kingdom on earth through Christ.


Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The scriptures are not about the eternal destiny of individuals, it is about nations and dominion of those nations on earth. It has been given to us in symbolic, allegorical form mixed with human corruption.

In these “last days” knowledge is increased and we need to learn from each other and not just think that because we have been taught something it is true, the scriptures say that there would be corruption, you see that corruption in other churches but do not see it in your own church.
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.



Jesus teachings to his “disciples” is for the “the church” in building up “his body” on earth, to rule over the the “kings” of the earth. It is about spiritual ie national things.

The call is for Gods people to come out of Babylon which is religion that says they speak for God but don’t.

Revelation is written to the churches and they are told to overcome to inherit “the kingdom”

Individuals are “grass” ....... Revelation is about national entities on earth, the same as the promises were to “Abraham” who is the FATHER OF NATIONS

1Pe 1:24 for “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls,
1Pe 1:25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.

Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
The Word of God Stands Forever

Isa 40:6 A voice says, “Cry!” And I said, “What shall I cry?” All flesh is grass, and all its beauty is like the flower of the field.
Isa 40:7 The grass withers, the flower fades when the breath of the LORD blows on it; surely the people are grass.
Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,266 posts, read 4,233,174 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
NOTHING gives me greater pleasure than to guide people to the reasons why I see an infinitely different God in the Bible than the one I was taught in the several different eternal punishment churches I attended during years gone by and in the Bible school from which I graduated. Iím 79 years old.


CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin


CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
TLC - Download File, "Christ Triumphant", by Thomas Allin
DANG, YOU ARE SO OLD, are you father time?


Just kidding so sorry lol. In Korea, an elderly man can walk into a store and go to the first of the line, and if ANYONE says something, every other one who that man cut in front of would start whipping the person who says something to the elderly, that is how much they respect their elders.


I didn't click on your links, my computer is really bad, but as I learned the design of the temple and the feasts of God, I learned all the Jewish idioms about hell, and hell is not what people think it is, it is the outer court, and there just happens to be salvation in that court, albeit, the lowest rung of being saved where you weep and gnash your teeth, but not because you are in physical torment, you are in a mental torment because you learned that heaven is just not one big box, there are 3 sections.
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,679 times
Reputation: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Your post is confusion.

Sheol( Hebrew) = Hades( Greek)= Hell( English)--the grave.
The lake of fire= the second death= the permanent death. Fire= destruction.

Rev clearly teaches those that do certain sins will be thrown into the lake of fire--No where in the bible does it state one will ever come out of there. The resurrection to earth after Har-mageddon, one can learn and apply Gods will for 1000 years with no satan influences--but satan will be released for a little while some will follow him into the lake of fire--they blew their eternal life in Gods kingdom right there--they will never get another chance.
EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED
Sinners whose names are not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. But everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

“Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?
The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,679 times
Reputation: 245
"DEATH AND DESTRUCTION ARE NOT ETERNAL
Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind!!!
Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both ARE completely true.
We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth) right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example. This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.
To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.
If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived inherited ideas."
Kenneth Larsen

"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?"
What Does it Mean to "Perish?"
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