U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:21 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
Reputation: 1571

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Good too see others can see through Eusebius' flawed reasoning. Eusebius only follows Eusebius when it come to the definition of words. There are no credible scholars that translate as he does. If there were they'd lose their job teaching Greek.


LOL . There are tons of highly qualified Greek scholars that agree with him and the way the Greek is interpreted . Please don't be so silly and dishonest as to resort to lies to push your position. The early Greek fathers who spoke and read Greek as their native language interpreted the words as universalists do today . They were the first champions of the idea of universal reconciliation .


When you must resort to falsehoods, your position is trash .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:24 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
No universal salvation for those of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6


Explain how they will not fall within Colossians 1:15-20.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:26 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
LOL . There are tons of highly qualified Greek scholars that agree with him and the way the Greek is interpreted . Please don't be so silly and dishonest as to resort to lies to push your position. The early Greek fathers who spoke and read Greek as their native language interpreted the words as universalists do today . They were the first champions of the idea of universal reconciliation .


When you must resort to falsehoods, your position is trash .
I'm guessing that you don't believe that 66 books of the Bible are the Word of God either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:26 PM
 
4,573 posts, read 2,267,926 times
Reputation: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
LOL . There are tons of highly qualified Greek scholars that agree with him and the way the Greek is interpreted . Please don't be so silly and dishonest as to resort to lies to push your position. The early Greek fathers who spoke and read Greek as their native language interpreted the words as universalists do today . They were the first champions of the idea of universal reconciliation .
When you must resort to falsehoods, your position is trash .
What did the early Greek fathers conclude of the gospel accounts at Matthew 12:32; Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10 ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:37 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
I'm guessing that you don't believe that 66 books of the Bible are the Word of God either.



What does this have to do with the proper interpretation of Greek words ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:39 PM
 
4,573 posts, read 2,267,926 times
Reputation: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Explain how they will not fall within Colossians 1:15-20.
Yes, Christ has a central role as brought out at Colossians 1:13-23

Who is the ' us ' at verse 13 but those who take up following Christ.
Who is the ' we ' at verse 14 but those who take up following Christ.
So, Colossians chapter 1 in context and setting is addressing those who are following Christ - Colossians 1:2
Notice too the word ' if ' in verse 23
So, provided if a person continues in the faith......
Doesn't both Mark 10:45 and Matthew 20:28 say Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say All ?______
So, except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, the rest of mankind can be saved/delivered/ rescued.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:40 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What did the early Greek fathers conclude of the gospel accounts at Matthew 12:32; Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10 ?


They believed in corrective temporary punishment in Hell . This was actually the early understanding of Hell before it was corrupted by the Latin church which became the Catholic Church .

"Do not suppose that the soul is punished for endless eons (apeirou aionas) in Tartarus. Very properly, the soul is not punished to gratify the revenge of the divinity, but for the sake of healing. But we say that the soul is punished for an aionion period (aionios) calling its life and its allotted period of punishment, its aeon." --Olnmpiodorus (AD 550)

"For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetural, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them...the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed to them. "--Diodore of Tarsus, 320-394 A.D

You get your theology on this from the Catholics, not the early original Christians .

Last edited by wallflash; 04-09-2016 at 02:51 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:42 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Yes, Christ has a central role as brought out at Colossians 1:13-23

Who is the ' us ' at verse 13 but those who take up following Christ.
Who is the ' we ' at verse 14 but those who take up following Christ.
So, Colossians chapter 1 in context and setting is addressing those who are following Christ - Colossians 1:2
Notice too the word ' if ' in verse 23
So, provided if a person continues in the faith......
Doesn't both Mark 10:45 and Matthew 20:28 say Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say All ?______
So, except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, the rest of mankind can be saved/delivered/ rescued.


So in your limited interpretation of Gods salvation, you decide that the word ALL doesn't really really mean all, and when Paul says God reconciled ALL men to himself, he didn't really mean what he said, since MANY will in fact not be reconciled according to those who believe in eternal torment .

As I said to Mike555, it is those who believe in eternal torment that must change what the Bible says to fit their beliefs. It is those who believe in universal reconciliation who truly accept ALL of the Bible, without explaining away parts they don't like .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 02:53 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
What does this have to do with the proper interpretation of Greek words ?
The fact that you have to ask tells me you don't. That is where the whole problem is and no discussion can move forward until we agree on the one point that the Bible was authored by God. If we did agree then all of this would be solved quickly. Rather than fight the Bible those that believe in universal salvation have taken the fight to the translation of words. The Bible expressly warns us against that. It says it leads to harm and ungodliness. It says we are to do our utmost to present ourselves approved. Why do that if everyone is saved? It makes zero sense.

"Keep reminding them of these things, instructing them before God not to fight about words, something of no usefulness at all because it harms those listening. Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene." - 2 Tim 2:14-17

2 Timothy 2:14 Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

For the record moving forward, was the entire Bible authored by God? Yes or no.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 03:18 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,780,680 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Agreed.

Reconciliation is not forced on anyone. It's a choice and it's not God that reconciles to the wrong doer but the other way around. There are those that have a poisonous heart and will refuse to reconcile themselves to Jehovah. There are choices to be made. “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.” - Matthew 17:13, 14

Do you realize that the gate spoken of here is the gate of the Tabernacle or Temple? In the construction of both ordained by G-d, the THREE openings got progressively smaller as you approached G-d in the Holy of Holies. The Helenization of the NT by the Greek philosophical mindset and an inadequate language compared to the Hebrew, and the split from the Jews, let to the Jewish roots of the Word being nearly eradicated. Peace
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top