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Old 04-20-2016, 07:28 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,105 times
Reputation: 62

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
You are assuming that God can not change the hearts of the kind people you are describing.

Universal reconciliation does not mean God forces those who would not serve Him to serve Him and to be some place they do not want to be. Rather, it means God softens their hearts, teaches them, converts them so that the do want to serve God.
Ah here we go. What you speak of is a fantasy. So God is going to 'change hearts'? Have you ever met a person that truly hates God. Have you ever met a person that doesn't want life? I knew an older guy that has passed on btw, but before he did, he told me that God better not bring him back to life. If He does then he said that he'd commit suicide. You don't understand, there are those who's hearts are so poisoned they don't want anything to do with God. As long as there is a choice there is always the chance that someone can rebel and there are sins that can't be forgiven. (Mat 12:31)

So no it's not an assumption, it's already proven fact. There are people on this very message board that don't want anything to do with God. The only way that your fantasy would work is if no one had a choice and everyone was programed to get along. Well, then we would just be automatons. The universal salvation folks need to talk to more people and get out of their comfort zone and perhaps watch the news about those murdering people for their religion, sex and/or skin color. There are those that are not going to happily accept God by choice ever and there is nothing in the Bible that says the wicked will do such a thing.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:31 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,105 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Yes. Satisfied?
What school did you attend and are you published?
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:39 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,462,266 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Ah here we go. What you speak of is a fantasy. So God is going to 'change hearts'? Have you ever met a person that truly hates God. Have you ever met a person that doesn't want life? I knew an older guy that has passed on btw, but before he did, he told me that God better not bring him back to life. If He does then he said that he'd commit suicide. You don't understand, there are those who's hearts are so poisoned they don't want anything to do with God. As long as there is a choice there is always the chance that someone can rebel and there are sins that can't be forgiven. (Mat 12:31)

So no it's not an assumption, it's already proven fact. There are people on this very message board that don't want anything to do with God. The only way that your fantasy would work is if no one had a choice and everyone was programed to get along. Well, then we would just be automatons. The universal salvation folks need to talk to more people and get out of their comfort zone and perhaps watch the news about those murdering people for their religion, sex and/or skin color. There are those that are not going to happily accept God by choice ever and there is nothing in the Bible that says the wicked will do such a thing.


Even if this were true, it would be a form of delusion that could be cured .


You don't think God to be very powerful evidently .
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:41 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
All mankind sin and are wanting of the glory of God. "All avoid Him." "There are none righteous, no not one."

Since all mankind avoid God, how is it that some quit avoiding Him? It is due to Him intercepting us while we avoid Him.

The chief of sinners wrote this concerning God intercepting him:

1Ti 1:14-16 Yet the grace of our Lord overwhelms, with faith and love in Christ Jesus." (15) Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all welcome, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, foremost of whom am I." (16) But therefore was I shown mercy, that in me, the foremost, Jesus Christ should be displaying all His patience, for a pattern of those who are about to be believing on Him for life eonian."

Did you see that? God overwhelmed Paul with faith and love in Christ Jesus. He was shown mercy. And Paul said his salvation is a pattern of those who are about to be believing on Him for life eonian. So God saves us like He saved Paul.

The rest of mankind remain avoiding Him until He overwhelms them with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

So no amount of resistance can keep God from saving all mankind. So if God can save us, the worst of the worst, the rest should be a piece of cake.
You do realize there are those that can't be 'overwhelmed/reprogrammed'. Have you ever talked to a person that hates God? Hates life? Hate people?

What you are suggesting above is reprogramming plain and simple. Removing a person's choice to love God and forcing people to love God. If you will look at the other answers of your follow believers, everyone has a different answer which tells me you all don't know.

The biggest question is why didn't God just 'overwhelm/reprogram' people and Satan in the first place? Why thousands of years of suffering? Why all the warnings in the Bible about choosing God if everyone is just going to be 'overwhelmed' in the end anyway?

Do you guys not see this doctrine is much like the doctrine of some fated to Heaven and some fated to hellfire? Only in your version all go to Heaven. In both doctrines people are robbed of a choice in the matter. Both doctrines are completely unfair and unjust.

Is your answer to those that don't want to have anything to do with God, 'they don't have a choice'?
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:48 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,462,266 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
You do realize there are those that can't be 'overwhelmed/reprogrammed'. Have you ever talked to a person that hates God? Hates life? Hate people?

What you are suggesting above is reprogramming plain and simple. Removing a person's choice to love God and forcing people to love God. If you will look at the other answers of your follow believers, everyone has a different answer which tells me you all don't know.

The biggest question is why didn't God just 'overwhelm/reprogram' people and Satan in the first place? Why thousands of years of suffering? Why all the warnings in the Bible about choosing God if everyone is just going to be 'overwhelmed' in the end anyway?

Do you guys not see this doctrine is much like the doctrine of some fated to Heaven and some fated to hellfire? Only in your version all go to Heaven. In both doctrines people are robbed of a choice in the matter. Both doctrines are completely unfair and unjust.

Is your answer to those that don't want to have anything to do with God, 'they don't have a choice'?


Only in the warped and twisted logic of Christian fundamentalism could it be claimed that God loving and healing people of their hate is unjust and unkind to the hater, while sending them to never ending torment in Hell is the kind and just thing to do on their behalf .

Now I've seen it all . Wow .
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:50 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,105 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Even if this were true, it would be a form of delusion that could be cured .


You don't think God to be very powerful evidently .
Reprogramming plain and simple. Removing choice from people. No thanks.

Do you make your family and friends love you? Do you go off 'curing' those that don't? You're saying God is going to use His power to force people to love Him? That's not love. That's robot following what it was programmed to do.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:52 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,462,266 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Reprogramming plain and simple. Removing choice from people. No thanks.

Do you make your family and friends love you? Do you go off 'curing' those that don't? You're saying God is going to use His power to force people to love Him? That's not love. That's robot following what it was programmed to do.


A false claim on your part . UR does not teach reprogramming or making people into robots . It teaches corrective punishment and having your spiritual eyes open, and being taught the truth about existence , but the choice is always with the person being punished . You refuse to allow for people having their spiritual blinders removed upon death and seeing with new eyes .

You operate from a very warped view of what UR teaches .
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:54 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,105 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Only in the warped and twisted logic of Christian fundamentalism could it be claimed that God loving and healing people of their hate is unjust and unkind to the hater, while sending them to never ending torment in Hell is the kind and just thing to do on their behalf .

Now I've seen it all . Wow .
I don't believe in eternal hellfire, I have said this over and over. I do believe in eternal destruction. I also believe in choices. I choose God. I want the privilege to show Him my devotion. Not have it forced on me just so that I can live the live of programmed bag of meat. I would rather die. Because what you suggest is worse than death. Being able to love is being able to choose to love.

Do you force all your friends and family love you?
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:00 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,105 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
A false claim on your part . UR does not teach reprogramming or making people into robots . It teaches corrective punishment and having your spiritual eyes open, and being taught the truth about existence , but the choice is always with the person being punished . You refuse to allow for people having their spiritual blinders removed upon death and seeing with new eyes .

You operate from a very warped view of what UR teaches .
Corrective punishment??!! What if the person is never corrected? There's your eternal torture right there.

Spiritual blinder eh? Why were we given them in the first place? What does that even mean? Did Satan have 'spiritual blinders' on when he lied to A&E? If so, who put them there? Look at the answers of other posters in your creed. You all are answering differently. Who is right? Is a person going to be 'overwhelmed' in to following God? Or will it be 'corrective punishment'. This doctrine seems to not be fully formed. It seems that there is a split between reprogramming and punishment until a person complies. Seriously, let me die and never return if this is true.
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:09 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
You do realize there are those that can't be 'overwhelmed/reprogrammed'. Have you ever talked to a person that hates God? Hates life? Hate people?

What you are suggesting above is reprogramming plain and simple. Removing a person's choice to love God and forcing people to love God. If you will look at the other answers of your follow believers, everyone has a different answer which tells me you all don't know.

The biggest question is why didn't God just 'overwhelm/reprogram' people and Satan in the first place? Why thousands of years of suffering? Why all the warnings in the Bible about choosing God if everyone is just going to be 'overwhelmed' in the end anyway?

Do you guys not see this doctrine is much like the doctrine of some fated to Heaven and some fated to hellfire? Only in your version all go to Heaven. In both doctrines people are robbed of a choice in the matter. Both doctrines are completely unfair and unjust.

Is your answer to those that don't want to have anything to do with God, 'they don't have a choice'?
"God will have all humans to be saved and come into a realization of the truth. For, there is one God and one mediator of God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, Who gave Himself a ransom for all" (see 1 Tim.2:4-6).

Therefore, whatever it is how God does it, He will.

It is not a matter of human choice but a matter of what God has done to ensure the salvation of all mankind. Since all mankind have been ransomed, all mankind must therefore be freed from sin and death and brought into God's salvation.
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