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Old 04-20-2016, 09:36 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,465,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Why did God allow me to be 'schizo' in the first place? Who's fault is that?

Also would that drug not allow me to be cautious at all? Sometimes it's good to be cautious of our surroundings. It keeps us safe. I wouldn't take a drug that didn't allow me to be paranoid at all. You're still speaking of control in any case. How much a person loves. If a person has no love for God and God forces any love at all, that is a reprogramming of a person. Yes, I would rather commit suicide then my brain be altered in anyway and lose any choice. I want the option to choose to listen to God out of love. Not because I've been altered. That might be being alive, but it's not living.

"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants,by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. - De 30:19, 20

Why does God allow people to be schizo now ? What does that have to do with my illustration?

But I can see you are one who will avoid thinking about things that might alter your view . So I won't waste any more time if you are going to act obtuse over analogies . But freedom from delusion is not control, that is a ridiculous statement . It is freedom to see things as they really are rather than through the confusion of a mental illness . Such would be the case with those opposing God when they die and see reality as it is .
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,307 posts, read 4,253,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post

What I am hearing from others is a version of a shotgun wedding or a prearranged marriage.


Yeah, who would want that, no man or woman.
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:56 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Why does God allow people to be schizo now ? What does that have to do with my illustration?

But I can see you are one who will avoid thinking about things that might alter your view . So I won't waste any more time if you are going to act obtuse over analogies . But freedom from delusion is not control, that is a ridiculous statement . It is freedom to see things as they really are rather than through the confusion of a mental illness . Such would be the case with those opposing God when they die and see reality as it is .
What I am doing is examining closely your doctrine and finding major holes where freewill is concerned. Sorry I am not acting the way you want me to. You say I'm avoiding thinking about your doctrine but I have thought about it extensively. Only I am not stalling out on the suffice of this doctrine. I'm digging deeper. I guess if you were God you'd force me to act the way you want me to. Though from the answer of others I'm not sure how that would happen. Would you punish me until I acted the way you wanted me to? Or would you 'overwhelm.reprogram' me? I guess that is still be ironed out by whomever has the final say on this doctrine.

There were those that already saw things as they were. Their names were Adam and Eve. They choose to reject God's commandments. Satan too already saw things the way there were. God was in control and Satan didn't like that it would seem. Satan was the first one choose 'delusion' as you call it. A person can be freed from 'delusion' but what if their choice is 'delusion'?

I am not in a 'delusion' when it come to choices. I know I have a choice. Life or death. And again no, I don't believe in eternal torture. I do consider death eternal to be true.

The doctrine there is only one choice, life; isn't that the true delusion? It's misleading people to think they can get away with anything they wish now. But what we do while we are alive now is what will determine if we are faithful to God or not at Armageddon. I will not be tricked into thinking that all will live past God's war on wickedness on the Earth.

Joshua 24:15 "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...But as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.”
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:10 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Yeah, who would want that, no man or woman.
You reminded me of the Song Of Solomon. I don't get to quote that book very often. How Jesus thinks of his bride.

"My dear one is to me like a cluster of henna Among the vineyards of En-gedʹi.”
“Look! You are beautiful, my beloved.
Look! You are beautiful. Your eyes are those of doves.”
“Look! You are beautiful, my dear one, and delightful."


Song of Solomon 1:14-16
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:19 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,465,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
What I am doing is examining closely your doctrine and finding major holes where freewill is concerned. Sorry I am not acting the way you want me to. You say I'm avoiding thinking about your doctrine but I have thought about it extensively. Only I am not stalling out on the suffice of this doctrine. I'm digging deeper. I guess if you were God you'd force me to act the way you want me to. Though from the answer of others I'm not sure how that would happen. Would you punish me until I acted the way you wanted me to? Or would you 'overwhelm.reprogram' me? I guess that is still be ironed out by whomever has the final say on this doctrine.

There were those that already saw things as they were. Their names were Adam and Eve. They choose to reject God's commandments. Satan too already saw things the way there were. God was in control and Satan didn't like that it would seem. Satan was the first one choose 'delusion' as you call it. A person can be freed from 'delusion' but what if their choice is 'delusion'?

I am not in a 'delusion' when it come to choices. I know I have a choice. Life or death. And again no, I don't believe in eternal torture. I do consider death eternal to be true.

The doctrine there is only one choice, life; isn't that the true delusion? It's misleading people to think they can get away with anything they wish now. But what we do while we are alive now is what will determine if we are faithful to God or not at Armageddon. I will not be tricked into thinking that all will live past God's war on wickedness on the Earth.

Joshua 24:15 "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...But as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.



There are no holes regarding free will. There is only your belief that God is impotent in the face of bringing everyone into a voluntary choice to follow God .

The God of the eternal torment folks just seems less than majestic and omnipotent to me .
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,307 posts, read 4,253,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
You reminded me of the Song Of Solomon. I don't get to quote that book very often. How Jesus thinks of his bride.

"My dear one is to me like a cluster of henna Among the vineyards of En-gedʹi.”
“Look! You are beautiful, my beloved.
Look! You are beautiful. Your eyes are those of doves.”
“Look! You are beautiful, my dear one, and delightful."


Song of Solomon 1:14-16

His bride is his body is the bride, he sings to himself as a love story between his flesh and spirit. And then there is the Samaritan woman. The people living in the land of Joseph are supposed to get married with the people of the land of David, two become one as man and wife, and so Solomon sings this song to a woman living in the land of Joseph.


That woman at the well had 5 husbands but the one she lived with was not her husband.


The names of the 5 husbands are thus.


Adam
Noah
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob


Judah was the one she was living with that she didn't marry.


Jesus was the 7th.


Everything is always about a wedding, and the law is a wedding contract. We wait on a wedding, a consummation, a wedding banquet, a birth from that wedding, and the circumcision of that child from that consummation.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:53 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Yes. There is a choice. Yes. Joseph could've had a different life. Yes. David too.

Why are their names in the Bible? Why are their accounts written down for us to examine? So we can imitate their faith. To know that following their God Jehovah brings rich rewards and honor for faithfulness no matter what hardship Satan or men put in front us. Even our mistakes, like in David's case can be forgiven if we return to God.

Yes, I agree. God wants us to choose Him like a Groom and Bride choose each other. That is a beautiful point btw.

What I am hearing from others is a version of a shotgun wedding or a prearranged marriage.
Pro 21:1 Like rillets of water is the king's heart in the hand of Yahweh;
Wherever He inclines, He turns it aside."

Pro 21:2 Every way of a man seems upright in his own eyes,
Yet it is Yahweh Who regulates the hearts."
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:55 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
There are no holes regarding free will. There is only your belief that God is impotent in the face of bringing everyone into a voluntary choice to follow God .
LOL that statement is what is called an oxymoron. 'Bringing' and 'voluntary' in the same sentence doesn't work. To bring is like I bring a sandwich with me to work everyday. The sandwich is not volunteering. When a person falls in love they don't bring that other person into marriage. They ask them.

What you suggesting is like army style 'volunteered'. As in you have been volunteered to fight...only in your doctrine it would be you have been 'volunteered' to obey God.

No way you slice it, you're doctrine is forcefully making people change. I hope you don't treat the ones you love the same way. I'm sure you have the power to do that like God has the power to force people to do what you want. But do you use it? How have people acted in the past to human leaders that do force people to what they want. Seriously, those that believe in this doctrine have not looked into it deep than what it is on the surface.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:09 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Pro 21:1 Like rillets of water is the king's heart in the hand of Yahweh;
Wherever He inclines, He turns it aside."

Pro 21:2 Every way of a man seems upright in his own eyes,
Yet it is Yahweh Who regulates the hearts."
"I will allow Pharʹaoh’s heart to become obstinate, and he will chase after them, and I will glorify myself by means of Pharʹaoh and all his army; and the Egyptians will certainly know that I am Jehovah.” So that is what they did." - Ex 14:4

He can direct a heart/steam that comes from a wicked source glorify Himself. He allowed Pharaoh's heart to lead him to destruction. He didn't force Pharaoh's heart to be wicked, He allowed it. God just directed Pharaoh's end.

"May Jehovah the God of our forefathers be praised, who put it into the heart of the king to beautify the house of Jehovah in Jerusalem!" - Ezra 7:27

He can also direct a stream/heart that comes from a righteous place to do good.
God doesn't command were the stream comes from or what is in the stream only where it goes. God doesn't turn a wicked person into a good person nor a good person into someone wicked.

You're using eisegesis to interpret scriptures. You have a point you want to make then go find the corresponding scriptures to support it. It should be other way around. Read the scriptures and let God's Word make it's point to you.
What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:24 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,465,125 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
LOL that statement is what is called an oxymoron. 'Bringing' and 'voluntary' in the same sentence doesn't work. To bring is like I bring a sandwich with me to work everyday. The sandwich is not volunteering. When a person falls in love they don't bring that other person into marriage. They ask them.

What you suggesting is like army style 'volunteered'. As in you have been volunteered to fight...only in your doctrine it would be you have been 'volunteered' to obey God.

No way you slice it, you're doctrine is forcefully making people change. I hope you don't treat the ones you love the same way. I'm sure you have the power to do that like God has the power to force people to do what you want. But do you use it? How have people acted in the past to human leaders that do force people to what they want. Seriously, those that believe in this doctrine have not looked into it deep than what it is on the surface.
Really dude? You hinge your objection on the word bringing?

So, if I bring a group of people with me to a concert , or a ballgame, I somehow forced them to come with me? How do you figure that ?

You can't seem to process how people will react when the delusion of this life is lifted . You don't seem to think much of Gods ability to restore people .
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