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Old 04-21-2016, 12:36 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,465,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
The same could be said of your accusations that God is allowing the majority of the world's Bibles to be translated incorrectly. Yet some how a few translators are just now getting it right? I looked into your accusations and found your evidence extremely weak. Therefore I will reject it.


If God is somehow preventing Bibles from being mistranslated then why are there so many Bibles, including versions like the New World translation. I don't see how anyone can maintain that God is somehow preventing errors in translation. That's just ridiculous on the evidence in any bookstore .

As for "just now", how does what was translated 1800-1900 years ago equate to " just now"?Get real.Just because the western world is ignorant of the original church and its teachings doesn't mean that they are any latter day mistakes . They are ancient teachings that changed in the west . The Latins mistranslated the Greek, and the western world has continued in the error because they distanced themselves from the original church and original understanding. Just now . LOL.

Last edited by wallflash; 04-21-2016 at 12:44 PM..
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
For some reason you continue to call accepting the interpretation of the Bible given by the Greek speaking fathers of the early church as twisting scripture . Since what is being put forth by UR supporters today is the same concept put forth by the most knowledgeable fathers of the early church, this accusation is highly dishonest .



What early church is that? All of the originals are long gone. They have Hebrew translating and Catholicism translating to go by. Both contradict one another.
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:20 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
The same could be said of your accusations that God is allowing the majority of the world's Bibles to be translated incorrectly. Yet some how a few translators are just now getting it right? I looked into your accusations and found your evidence extremely weak. Therefore I will reject it.
God doesn't just allow the printing of bad translations, He ensures it will occur:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (11) And therefore God will be sending them an operation of deception, for them to believe the falsehood, (12) that all may be judged who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
What early church is that? All of the originals are long gone. They have Hebrew translating and Catholicism translating to go by. Both contradict one another.


Writings of the Ancient Greek fathers from the original church commenting on biblical universal reconciliation. They have been quoted in this thread .
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:59 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
If God is somehow preventing Bibles from being mistranslated then why are there so many Bibles, including versions like the New World translation. I don't see how anyone can maintain that God is somehow preventing errors in translation.
So suddenly God is not so powerful to have His book translated correctly? Yet powerful enough to save everyone? Hide the truth but then save everyone? What is the point in that? The answers I have been getting.....sheeesh. Seriously, your logic is just beyond reasoning. You opinions are not truth and you are lacking any credentials that you know what you are talking about. I trust that the translators of not only the NWT, but many other Bibles are correct. I have found it's not the Bible translations or their translators that are flawed so much as the readers that interpret what they want the Bible to say in any version. Since they can't get the Bible to say exactly what they want it to say, now they attack it at it's roots. It's words. People have been doing it for centuries. They can't take what the Bible says, so they change it. That is what I see in this doctrine.

Oddly enough there are those that completely ignore the parts that love is God's dominating quality as well. We see two extremes in all of this. One believes in harsh justice the other doesn't believe God enforces justice at all. All these types of doctrines are Satan's doing. Anything that leads to unrighteousness is Satan's doing. People burning forever is an unrighteous doctrine and people that love to do absolutely evil acts getting a pass to eternal life is unrighteous.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-22-2016 at 07:27 AM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
God doesn't just allow the printing of bad translations, He ensures it will occur:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (11) And therefore God will be sending them an operation of deception, for them to believe the falsehood, (12) that all may be judged who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."
Using eisegesis in your interpretations again....

Shall we read the scripture in context to show that God is not changing Bible translations.

"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

The reason a person doesn't except the truth is not because of what God says but because of what they want to believe. That is exactly what I see in the universal salvation doctrine. People want to do what they want without consequence. This doctrine allows people to take pleasure in unrighteousness. Those that take pleasure in unrighteousness did you note are the ones perishing?

In fact read the whole book of 2 Thessalonians. It's about not being misled by any means that would lead to unrighteous conduct. Your doctrine allows for unrighteous conduct. Therefore it must be rejected per Paul's letter to the Thessalonians.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-22-2016 at 07:29 AM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:21 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
So suddenly God is not so powerful to have His book translated correctly? Yet powerful enough to save everyone? Hide the truth but then save everyone? What is the point in that? The answers I have been getting.....sheeesh. Seriously, your logic is just beyond reasoning. You opinions are not truth and you are lacking any credentials that you know what you are talking about. I trust that the translators of not only the NWT, but many other Bibles are correct. I have found it's not the Bible translations or their translators that are flawed so much as the readers that interpret what they want the Bible to say in any version. Since they can't get the Bible to say exactly what they want it to say, now they attack it at it's roots. It's words. People have been doing it for centuries. They can't take what the Bible says, so they change it. That is what I see.
But God has had proper translations over the years. The power of God is manifest in saving people in spite of bad translations. And He uses bad translations to keep the unbelievers in darkness. Now then, if God was like your God, a God who chooses certain ones to be believing and sends to eternal hell all who He does not choose, that turns God into the most horrific ogre ever, far worse than the gods of the heathens.

And if you say God sent His Son to die for all mankind's sins but then gives all mankind some sort of free-will choice to choose if they will be saved or not, and the ones who don't make the right choice go to some sort of eternal hell fire and damnation, this also makes God look like a horrible ogre. In other words, it makes the cross of Christ of none effect. Christ died for all mankind's sins but your God is going to make them pay for their sins for eternity.
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:36 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
But God has had proper translations over the years. The power of God is manifest in saving people in spite of bad translations. And He uses bad translations to keep the unbelievers in darkness. Now then, if God was like your God, a God who chooses certain ones to be believing and sends to eternal hell all who He does not choose, that turns God into the most horrific ogre ever, far worse than the gods of the heathens.

And if you say God sent His Son to die for all mankind's sins but then gives all mankind some sort of free-will choice to choose if they will be saved or not, and the ones who don't make the right choice go to some sort of eternal hell fire and damnation, this also makes God look like a horrible ogre. In other words, it makes the cross of Christ of none effect. Christ died for all mankind's sins but your God is going to make them pay for their sins for eternity.
You didn't read all of 2 Thessalonians I see. We must reject any doctrine that misleads people into doing unrighteous acts or that they are 'ok'. The doctrine of universal salvation allows for unrighteousness. Therefore according to the inspired letter from Paul, it is a misleading teaching and not from God.

I'm actually glad you brought up 2 Thessalonians. That book is the final nail in universal salvation doctrine's coffin for me.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-22-2016 at 07:47 AM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Using eisegesis in your interpretations again....

Shall we read the scripture in context to show that God is not changing Bible translations.

"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

The reason a person doesn't except the truth is not because of what God says but because of what they want to believe. That is exactly what I see in the universal salvation doctrine. People want to do what they want without consequence. This doctrine allows people to take pleasure in unrighteousness. Those that take pleasure in unrighteousness did you note are the ones perishing?
That is a misrepresentation of what people who believe God will save all mankind according to 1 Timothy 2:4-6 believe. We believe both believers and unbelievers suffer consequences for their sins. Just look at this. It pertains to believers for whom Christ died:

1 Corinthians 11:29-32 For he who is eating and drinking unworthily is eating and drinking judgment to
himself, not discriminating the body of the Lord." (30) Therefore many among you are infirm and
ailing, and a considerable number are reposing." (31) For if we adjudicated ourselves, we would not be
judged." (32) Yet, being judged, we are being disciplined by the Lord, that we may not be condemned
with the world."

And during when Christ sets up His 1000 year reign in Israel He will judge the nations as to how they treated His brethren during their 3 1/2 years of tribulation (Matthew 25:31-46). And then, during that reign, the worst criminals who receive the death penalty will, after being executed, have their dead bodies cast into the trash dump called Gehenna.

Then, during the New Earth, there will be the second death. So how can you say we believe there are no consequences for what people do?


Quote:
In fact read the whole book of 2 Thessalonians. It's about not being misled by any means that would lead to unrighteous conduct. Your doctrine allows for unrighteous conduct. Therefore it must be rejected per Paul's letter to the Thessalonians.
No, God actually tells us in 1 Timothy 4:10 and 11 to charge and teach that God is the Saviour of all mankind. If you think that leads to unrighteous conduct then God, according to you, is making us sin.
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:11 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
You didn't read all of 2 Thessalonians I see. We must reject any doctrine that misleads people into doing unrighteous acts or that they are 'ok'. The doctrine of universal salvation allows for unrighteousness. Therefore according to the inspired letter from Paul, it is a misleading teaching and not from God.

I'm actually glad you brought up 2 Thessalonians. That book is the final nail in universal salvation doctrine's coffin for me.
History, especially church history, does not agree with your statements above. Care to try and pull another O.J. and take another stab in the dark?
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