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Old 04-22-2016, 11:53 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
1 Timothy doesn't disprove 2 Thessalonians or visa versa. Your interpretations are the contradictions. I have no problems with any of the Bible. The question is about what is righteous and what your doctrine approves of leads to unrighteousness.
Well that's great! So you and your pastors charge and teach that all mankind have God for their Saviour according to 1 Timothy 4:10,11? And you and them teach that "God will have all mankind to be saved" according to 1 Timothy 2:4-6? That's just wonderful! Welcome to true Christianity!
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Old 04-22-2016, 12:27 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
"God will have all mankind to be saved" according to 1 Timothy 2:4-6
That is not what 1 Timothy 2:4 says. Your quote is false and paraphrased to fit your doctrine.

1 Tim 2:4 says "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

I want others to see that you have changed it. God wants all people to be saved NOT that they will be saved. You changed it.

1 Timothy 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Only those that repent will be saved. (Acts 17:30) As it says in 1 Tim 2:4 God would like all to repent but knows people have a choice.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-22-2016 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 12:38 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Not so. This may be true for the writings that were incorporated into the Bible, but many writings from early fathers exist which show that the early church in the east ( original church) taught universal reconciliation.
Yes. During the great apostasy. Hellfire doctrine also weaseled its way into teachings in that era as well. This time of the 'early church' was not part of God's teachings. Doctrines from that time period are mostly garbage.

This split from true worship was foretold. (2 Thess 2:3, 1 Tim 4:1, 2 Tim 4:3, 2 Pe 2:1, 1 John 2:18, 19)
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:10 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
That is not what 1 Timothy 2:4 says. Your quote is false and paraphrased to fit your doctrine.

1 Tim 2:4 says "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

I want others to see that you have changed it. God wants all people to be saved NOT that they will be saved. You changed it.

1 Timothy 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Only those that repent will be saved. (Acts 17:30) As it says in 1 Tim 2:4 God would like all to repent but knows people have a choice.

No, the word for wants or desires in Greek is: epithumia whereas "will" is thelo. Thelo is used in "God wills that all mankind be saved."

But just for the sake of argument, lets just say it should be the way your errant translation has translated "thelo." Let's say "God desires or God wants all people to be saved." You still can't win this argument since:

Isa_46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done.
Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'"

Obviously you know nothing concerning "ransom." The reason given in 1 Timothy 2:6 for why God will have all mankind to be saved in 1 Timothy 2:4 is that all mankind have been ransomed by Jesus. Do some research on the word "ransom" and "redeem" and you will notice every human or animal in the Old Testament that was ransomed had to be freed.
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:15 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
That is not what 1 Timothy 2:4 says. Your quote is false and paraphrased to fit your doctrine.

1 Tim 2:4 says "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

I want others to see that you have changed it. God wants all people to be saved NOT that they will be saved. You changed it.

1 Timothy 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Only those that repent will be saved. (Acts 17:30) As it says in 1 Tim 2:4 God would like all to repent but knows people have a choice.

So you believe "God will NOT have all mankind to be saved" rather than "God will have all mankind to be saved." And you believe "God is NOT the Saviour of all mankind" rather than "God IS the Saviour of all mankind. You need to come to grips with your unbelief and just tell God this: "God, I know you said you will save all mankind and you said you are all mankind's Saviour. But God, really, I just don't believe you. You are spreading heresy and must go to the very hell you made for me." signed 2Timothy316
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:00 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
So you believe "God will NOT have all mankind to be saved" rather than "God will have all mankind to be saved." And you believe "God is NOT the Saviour of all mankind" rather than "God IS the Saviour of all mankind. You need to come to grips with your unbelief and just tell God this: "God, I know you said you will save all mankind and you said you are all mankind's Saviour. But God, really, I just don't believe you. You are spreading heresy and must go to the very hell you made for me." signed 2Timothy316
God will be the savior of mankind in that mankind as a species will not be destroyed but will live on Earth forever. That doesn't mean every individual person will be saved. Only those that repent will be saved and there will be so many that no one will be able to number them. (Rev 7:9) Yet the Bible is clear, there are those that will not repent and choose God will be at war with God's chosen King Jesus Christ. (Rev 2:16)

As I said before, when a person does their research into the Bible. The truth is not eternal hellfire but it is also not every will be saved either. Otherwise there would be no reason to hold off on His judgement day. He'd just get if over with. But He is waiting so as many as possible to repent and have a chance at life. He will not wait forever. I normally find that the truth in is the middle. Satan is the one that swings to the extremes with his tactics. Eternal torture on fire which is unjust and allowing the wicked to live, which is also unjust. Those that think the wicked should live must have never met a truly wicked person. But no one, not even a wicked person deserves burning forever for only maybe at most 80 years of wickedness. They also don't deserve to have their minds zapped into submission to God. That's not a person, that's an animal. Alive yes, but they are not the same person, if they are person at all.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-22-2016 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:45 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
God will be the savior of mankind in that mankind as a species will not be destroyed but will live on Earth forever. That doesn't mean every individual person will be saved. Only those that repent will be saved and there will be so many that no one will be able to number them. (Rev 7:9) Yet the Bible is clear, there are those that will not repent and choose God will be at war with God's chosen King Jesus Christ. (Rev 2:16)

As I said before, when a person does their research into the Bible. The truth is not eternal hellfire but it is also not every will be saved either. Otherwise there would be no reason to hold off on His judgement day. He'd just get if over with. But He is waiting so as many as possible to repent and have a chance at life. He will not wait forever. I normally find that the truth in is the middle. Satan is the one that swings to the extremes with his tactics. Eternal torture on fire which is unjust and allowing the wicked to live, which is also unjust. Those that think the wicked should live must have never met a truly wicked person. But no one, not even a wicked person deserves burning forever for only maybe at most 80 years of wickedness. They also don't deserve to have their minds zapped into submission to God. That's not a person, that's an animal. Alive yes, but they are not the same person, if they are person at all.


So what happens to those who are not wicked but who don't accept the Christian God, or Christians who don't repent ?
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:33 PM
 
4,054 posts, read 1,454,729 times
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Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Not so. This may be true for the writings that were incorporated into the Bible, but many writings from early fathers exist which show that the early church in the east ( original church) taught universal reconciliation.


After the apostles were killed--the followers were hunted down, captured and thrown to hungry wild animals as a public spectacle--the religion basically died right there--the great apostasy rose up-2Thess 2:3)-- Not until these last days has truth come back-Daniel 12:4)
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:38 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,463,863 times
Reputation: 1571
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Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
after the apostles were killed--the followers were hunted down, captured and thrown to hungry wild animals as a public spectacle--the religion basically died right there--the great apostasy rose up-2thess 2:3)-- not until these last days has truth come back-daniel 12:4)


Um....sure .
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Old 04-22-2016, 05:20 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
God will be the savior of mankind in that mankind as a species will not be destroyed but will live on Earth forever. That doesn't mean every individual person will be saved. Only those that repent will be saved and there will be so many that no one will be able to number them. (Rev 7:9) Yet the Bible is clear, there are those that will not repent and choose God will be at war with God's chosen King Jesus Christ. (Rev 2:16)

As I said before, when a person does their research into the Bible. The truth is not eternal hellfire but it is also not every will be saved either. Otherwise there would be no reason to hold off on His judgement day. He'd just get if over with. But He is waiting so as many as possible to repent and have a chance at life. He will not wait forever. I normally find that the truth in is the middle. Satan is the one that swings to the extremes with his tactics. Eternal torture on fire which is unjust and allowing the wicked to live, which is also unjust. Those that think the wicked should live must have never met a truly wicked person. But no one, not even a wicked person deserves burning forever for only maybe at most 80 years of wickedness. They also don't deserve to have their minds zapped into submission to God. That's not a person, that's an animal. Alive yes, but they are not the same person, if they are person at all.
So you believe "God will NOT have all mankind to be saved" rather than "God will have all mankind to be saved." And you believe "God is NOT the Saviour of all mankind" rather than "God IS the Saviour of all mankind.
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