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Old 04-27-2016, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
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If someone had read a gospel or two and some of the epistles, they'd have to be a complete moron to believe that everyone eventually goes to heaven.

Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Mt 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
If someone had read a gospel or two and some of the epistles, they'd have to be a complete moron to believe that everyone eventually goes to heaven.

Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Mt 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Hi augie,
In a sense you are correct. All the Old Testament and New Testament without Paul's epistles, has the Israelites remaining on the earth. Only Christ ascended into the heavens after He died and resurrected. But He is returning and all the Israelites who come out of their graves will either enter into the kingdom Christ is going to set up in Israel or some of the nasty Israelites will be kicked out of Israel to have to live with the goat nations.

If all you read were Paul's epistles to the nations, you would know the nations have a celestial/heavenly allotment.

Also, your Matthew 25:46 is improperly translated. It should be either "age-during punishement and age-during life" or "eonian punishment and eonian life."
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Electron View Post
1Timothy 2:4-6 says nothing of the sort. While God may in fact desire that ALL be saved, he does not simply will it to happen.
The verse says that God actually WILL have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6 if you don't believe me.)

And if you are going to take the tack that God only desires to save all mankind, you are still not going to win your argument since:

Isa_46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done.
Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'"
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The verse says that God actually WILL have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6 if you don't believe me.)

And if you are going to take the tack that God only desires to save all mankind, you are still not going to win your argument since:

Isa_46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done.
Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'"
Not so fast!

Jesus wanted to gather His people under his wings, but He did not get His will/desire.

"How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me"

Nor did He force them under His wings. He could have done that, but He didn't.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Not so fast!

Jesus wanted to gather His people under his wings, but He did not get His will/desire.

"How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me"

Nor did He force them under His wings. He could have done that, but He didn't.

But eventually they will all be saved for Romans 11:26 tells us "All Israel shall be saved."

Besides, at that point in time Jesus had not ransomed Israel through His death on the cross.

But let it be known that all mankind will not be saved during the next two eons. It is only when Christ quits reigning, all sovereignty, authority and power is annulled and death is abolished that the rest of mankind are subjected to Christ and then God is All in all (see 1 Cor.15:22-28 if you don't believe me).

Your above statement assures me you really don't understand what "ransom" means. All animals and humans in the Old Testament that were ransomed had to be freed. Since all mankind have been ransomed, all mankind must therefore be freed from bondage to sin and death and freed into God's salvation of immortality and incorruption. It is too late. There is nothing you can do about this. The ransom has already been done. I would think you would rejoice at such great news.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Your above statement assures me you really don't understand what "ransom" means.
And your statements assures me you really don't understand what Jesus taught.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And your statements assures me you really don't understand what Jesus taught.
But I do understand what He taught.

Finn, I'm not trying to irk you, when I request this of you: Please research the word "ransom" through the entire Bible. Christ ransomed all mankind. This is why God says He will have all mankind to be saved FOR (or the reason why this is so that He will have all mankind saved is . . . "Christ gave Himself a ransom for all."
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
But I do understand what He taught.

Finn, I'm not trying to irk you, when I request this of you: Please research the word "ransom" through the entire Bible. Christ ransomed all mankind. This is why God says He will have all mankind to be saved FOR (or the reason why this is so that He will have all mankind saved is . . . "Christ gave Himself a ransom for all."
Please research and learn why Jesus repeatedly said those who believe will be saved. Without the ransom no one could have been saved, but with it, those who believe will be saved. It is like in the parable of the wedding, which I already quoted. Everyone was in invited, but many rejected the invitation.

I can pay for your meal. Free food, all you can eat in a fine restaurant, but I can't force you to eat if you refuse to come.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:58 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Please research and learn why Jesus repeatedly said those who believe will be saved. Without the ransom no one could have been saved, but with it, those who believe will be saved. It is like in the parable of the wedding, which I already quoted. Everyone was in invited, but many rejected the invitation.

I can pay for your meal. Free food, all you can eat in a fine restaurant, but I can't force you to eat if you refuse to come.
I already know those things and have known them many years. They do not keep God from eventually saving all mankind.

Why can't you at the very least research the word "ransom"?
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Old 04-27-2016, 02:08 PM
 
37,496 posts, read 25,232,088 times
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Originally Posted by Electron View Post
1Timothy 2:4-6 says nothing of the sort. While God may, in fact, desire that ALL be saved, he does not simply will it to happen.
Of course not, He sent Jesus to accomplish it. That's why it is finished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, some accept the invitation, while many reject it. Jesus was very clear about salvation and explained people are saved through faith. It is repeated some 200 times in the Bible, so it is rich some people argue otherwise.
IF you need to be saved, your Savior does not offer an invitation. He saves you, period. How many lifeguards invite their drowning victims to be saved????? This is a preposterous argument.
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