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Old 04-27-2016, 03:14 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,995 times
Reputation: 62

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Of course not, He sent Jesus to accomplish it. That's why it is finished.
IF you need to be saved, your Savior does not offer an invitation. He saves you, period. How many lifeguards invite their drowning victims to be saved????? This is a preposterous argument.
Yet a million people commit suicide every year....the universal salvation folks just don't live in the real world. That's why it's pointless to argue with them.
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,926,753 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Why can't you at the very least research the word "ransom"?
I already know what it means and have known it many years.
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,926,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
How many lifeguards invite their drowning victims to be saved????? This is a preposterous argument.
Lifeguards extend their hand, but if you refuse it, and instead punch him in the face and then drown yourself, then what can they do. Yes, the lifeguard argument is preposterous indeed. You keep stealing this "lifeguard" argument from the Tentmaker.Com, which is a known universalist web page, but it is a very bad argument.
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:32 PM
 
37,573 posts, read 25,275,797 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Of course not, He sent Jesus to accomplish it. That's why it is finished.
IF you need to be saved, your Savior does not offer an invitation. He saves you, period. How many lifeguards invite their drowning victims to be saved????? This is a preposterous argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Lifeguards extend their hand, but if you refuse it, and instead punch him in the face and then drown yourself, then what can they do. Yes, the lifeguard argument is preposterous indeed. You keep stealing this "lifeguard" argument from the Tentmaker.Com, which is a known universalist web page, but it is a very bad argument.
Clearly, you have never been a lifeguard. There is no extending of a hand to a drowning victim. They are usually panicking and flailing about. Lifeguards give them no choices, they simply haul them to safety.
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:55 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,444,857 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I already know what it means and have known it many years.
If you know what "ransom" means, you would know that is why God will have all mankind to be saved.

All mankind have been ransomed from Adam to the last human born. They must all be freed from slavery to sin and death and freed into God's salvation.

Have you not read

Romans 8:20-21 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who
subjects it, in expectation" (21) that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption
into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

There is the glorious freedom from sin and death into immortality and incorruption the children of God enjoy. So there are two groups mentioned above:
  1. creation
  2. children of God
Both groups will enter into the same glorious freedom. It doesn't say "if they only do such and such."

Romans 8:22-23 For we are aware that the entire creation is groaning and travailing together until
now. (23) Yet not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the spirit, we ourselves
also, are groaning in ourselves, awaiting the sonship, the deliverance of our body."

Last edited by Eusebius; 04-27-2016 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:57 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,444,857 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Clearly, you have never been a lifeguard. There is no extending of a hand to a drowning victim. They are usually panicking and flailing about. Lifeguards give them no choices, they simply haul them to safety.
Sometimes the drowned victim is lifeless and their heart has stopped. I guess in that case the lifeguard, under Fin's scenario, must first ask the lifeless victim if he will just reach out his hand so the lifeguard can save him. Otherwise the lifeguard must leave that person to rot in the pool or lake. Too bad for the victim.
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,926,753 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Clearly, you have never been a lifeguard. There is no extending of a hand to a drowning victim. They are usually panicking and flailing about. Lifeguards give them no choices, they simply haul them to safety.
Not true with people who do not wish to be hauled in. They might even take the lifeguard down with them, just like the people in the parable of the wedding did when they killed the people presenting the invitation.
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,926,753 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If you know what "ransom" means, you would know that is why God will have all mankind to be saved.
No, you only think so because you do not know what it means. Please do some research on this.

I bought free buffet for everyone. Some will come, and some won't, but it's all paid for. Your choice. I won't drag anyone in and force steak and lobster down their throats. Jesus didn't' drag anyone in either.
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,926,753 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
I guess in that case the lifeguard, under Fin's scenario, must first ask the lifeless victim if he will just reach out his hand so the lifeguard can save him.
No, in my scenario the person refused the help. Lets not pretend it never happens, because it does. It also happened in parable Jesus told.
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Old 04-27-2016, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
Reputation: 9964
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Of course not, He sent Jesus to accomplish it. That's why it is finished.
IF you need to be saved, your Savior does not offer an invitation. He saves you, period.
That's true, and if salvation is all you're after, you need do nothing more than let His "finished" work be the end of it. Some of us, however, don't want to settle for that.
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