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Old 04-27-2016, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,285 posts, read 4,242,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
I know that not all do. That's why I said " those that " do . There was no insinuation. It was plainly stated.


Cool beans, yeah, people are always discussing who is in the kingdom when most people don't really know anything about the kingdom. It is in 3 sections but everyone seems to think it's a big box. Jesus said you can not keep the commandments and teach others not to keep the commandments and this includes and is usually about the keeping of Sabbaths and feasts because Christians will teach others not to keep the 7 feasts. They wont keep them and they teach others not to keep them, and they can even speak against Christ himself AND STILL be in the kingdom, but they are the least, and then there is the greatest.


Same goes where it speaks of sexual immorality and thieves and murderers and those who love to love a lie, they will never enter into the kingdom of heaven but this is the higher zoe kingdom, not the entire kingdom. We still see those liars and thieves that are outside the city, and yet they are still there.


Just as others say,'' We taught your name in the streets and did miracles in your name,'' but Jesus says,'' Depart from me you workers of iniquity{lawbreakers}.


And yet they are still saved and sent to the outer court.


It's that the Christians who speak of such things should learn what they are speaking of and we are not left without a description, the design of the temple was made in such a way as to mirror what the kingdom of heaven is.


Sorry, I am just rambling on aint I?


But it is frustrating when others try and even guess where somebody is going and no matter what you find wrong with one person, the mirror is always pointing back at something worse half the time.


I think I feel sorry for people who have never committed any real sins like the great devil I am, but you wouldn't believe in devils now would ya Wallflash, lol.


And yet, here I am.
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Old 04-28-2016, 06:49 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, in my scenario the person refused the help. Lets not pretend it never happens, because it does. It also happened in parable Jesus told.
But Jesus seeks the lost until saved. The Jesus of the Bible sure is a lot different from yours.
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:01 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
If you know what "ransom" means, you would know that is why God will have all mankind to be saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, you only think so because you do not know what it means. Please do some research on this.

I bought free buffet for everyone. Some will come, and some won't, but it's all paid for. Your choice. I won't drag anyone in and force steak and lobster down their throats. Jesus didn't' drag anyone in either.
Dear Finn,
But I really do know what "ransom" means because I know for a fact how it is used in the Sacred Scriptures.

After a ransom is made, the animal or human ransomed is not offered a chance to be freed. They just ARE freed.

Buying a free buffet for everyone is hugely different than a ransom paid. As to the buffet scenario, people are allowed to turn down your offer. Under the ransom scenario no one can turn down the ransom.

You say "Jesus didn't drag anyone in either but God does and so will Jesus. Did not Jesus say himself "And I if I be exalted out of the earth will DRAW all to Myself? When the disciples would cast their net for fish, they would DRAW the fish to shore.
And Jesus said "No one can come to Me unless the Father draw him and I shall be raising him in the last day." You see, there is no doubt in Jesus' mind that the ones drawn to Him shall be saved.

Jesus ransomed all mankind and based on that, God will have all mankind to be saved. No ifs and or buts about it.
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,493 posts, read 31,880,770 times
Reputation: 9411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
But Jesus seeks the lost until saved. The Jesus of the Bible sure is a lot different from yours.
No. Please research what Jesus taught about faith and salvation, don't just blindly believe everything they tell you at Tentmaker.Com
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,493 posts, read 31,880,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
But I really do know what "ransom" means because I know for a fact how it is used in the Sacred Scriptures.
Based on what you have said, I am assured that you do not.

It is the same as a free buffet. It is the same as the wedding feast, where everyone was invited, but many rejected.

Why do you think Jesus repeated these teachings?

A wall between us and God has been removed. The ransom is paid, but we still have two paths to choose from. Why do you think Jesus talked about two paths? Why do you think He repeated over and over and over that those who believe are saved?

Quote:
After a ransom is made, the animal or human ransomed is not offered a chance to be freed. They just ARE freed.
The animal is the sacrifice, and the human is free to either embrace, or reject the gift.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-28-2016 at 08:35 AM..
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,219 posts, read 14,100,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
After a ransom is made, the animal or human ransomed is not offered a chance to be freed. They just ARE freed.
An animal is really not the greatest example, since they do not have the capabilities of thought and reasoning that humans do.

When slavery ended legally in the 1860s, black people were legally set free. However, many stayed with their owners and continued the status quo... maybe out of fear of the unknown of what freedom had to offer... maybe because they had a good relationship with their owners... maybe they were skeptical of the proclamation... the point is many chose freedom, but a good amount remained with their owners.

People have a choice to remain in their sin. Maybe they like the "spoils" that sin has to offer. Coming to Christ is voluntary. It always has been.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:23 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
An animal is really not the greatest example, since they do not have the capabilities of thought and reasoning that humans do.

When slavery ended legally in the 1860s, black people were legally set free. However, many stayed with their owners and continued the status quo... maybe out of fear of the unknown of what freedom had to offer... maybe because they had a good relationship with their owners... maybe they were skeptical of the proclamation... the point is many chose freedom, but a good amount remained with their owners.

People have a choice to remain in their sin. Maybe they like the "spoils" that sin has to offer. Coming to Christ is voluntary. It always has been.
The freeing of a slave in the 1860's is in no way equivalent to a slave or group of people being freed under the Hebrew system. They are totally different.

And obviously the animal being freed from being sacrificed due to being ransomed is a perfect illustration of ransom since it is in the Bible for our instruction as to what occurs to that animal upon being ransomed. It is freed.

Likewise, a Hebrew slave who was ransomed by a relative had to be freed once the ransom was made. IF the slave was married to the woman provided by the slave holder, that woman legally belonged to the slave holder and so did the children under the Hebrew law. So if the slave loved the woman and children and didn't want to be ransomed he would remain a slave to stay with the family. But if he was ransomed he had to leave all that behind. These are the facts. After the ransom there was no choosing to accept or reject. And since the ransom is already made for all mankind, all mankind must therefore be freed from slavery to sin and death and be freed into God's salvation.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:25 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Coming to Christ is voluntary. It always has been.
Maybe according to your church that is so but not according to the Bible:

Joh_1:13 who were begotten, not of bloods, neither of the will of the flesh, neither of the will of a man, but of God."

And Jesus said:

Not you choose me but I choose you.

Last edited by Eusebius; 04-28-2016 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:33 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Based on what you have said, I am assured that you do not.
If you understood the ramifications of ransom under the Hebrew understanding, you would agree with me. You need to tell me, and use Scriptures concerning ransom to prove I am wrong. So far you have not done so. All you have done is use your say-so in telling me I am wrong. Anyone can do that.

Quote:
It is the same as a free buffet. It is the same as the wedding feast, where everyone was invite, but many rejected.
Free buffets and wedding feasts are not the same as ransom.

Quote:
Why do you think Jesus repeated these teachings?
Because the people He spoke to didn't get it and neither do you.

Quote:
A wall between us and God has been removed. The ransom is paid, but we still have two paths to choose from. Why do you think Jesus talked about two paths? Why do you think He repeated over and over and over that those who believe are saved?
It is God Who chooses us before the disruption of the world and we know that whom He chooses, these He glorifies. So it begins and ends with God. See Romans 8.

Quote:
The animal is the sacrifice, and the human is free to either embrace, or reject the gift.
That is false. The person brings the animal to be sacrificed and upon being sacrificed the person's problem, whatever it was, is in the past. Why would the person go all the way to Jerusalem with his animal sacrifice, have the priest sacrifice it and then not accept that sacrifice? That is just ludicrous!

All mankind have been ransomed. And it is for that reason that "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Tim.2:4-6) and is the reason why God is all mankind's Saviour (1 Tim.4:10).
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,493 posts, read 31,880,770 times
Reputation: 9411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If you understood the ramifications of ransom under the Hebrew understanding, you would agree with me.
Same to you.

Feel free to believe anything you want.

Have a nice day.
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