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Old 04-28-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,314 posts, read 14,180,638 times
Reputation: 10138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
How about you answer my question which i asked first and which you have not answered yet. Here it is again with the conversation:




Quote:

That was not the answer to the question I asked above. Can't you answer the question?

You obviously did not read my last post. I did answer your question.

Never mind....
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:49 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,463,277 times
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Okay, here is your statement and then my reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Could you tell Freak80 and TroutDude that they have no choice? Please tell them they must worship the Lord.
Quote:
Eusebius replied:
I already have. But not in the words you have chosen above. Anyone who is saved does not have a choice. Remember, we are not saved by our wills but by God's will. Do you believe that verse?

Freak80 and TroutDude were ransomed. They will be set free from sin and death and freed into God's salvation. Would you personally feel you HAD TO WORSHIP THE LORD BASED ON THAT IN YOUR OWN LIFE? Or do you personally just want to worship God and be thankful for all He did to save you? Please be honest.
Quote:
You DRob4JC replied to my question:
I personally choose to follow and worship Him. I also understand in His sovereignty that He chose me. Both apply.
Then if that happened to you, why do you feel Freak80 and TroutDude have no choice but must be forced to worship the Lord?
So if the Lord chose Freak80 and TroutDude for salvation in the future due to Christ ransoming them, why is it they MUST worship the Lord but you don't have to unless you want to?



Quote:
Consider these verses...

John 15:16 - "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

John 6:67-69 - So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 "We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."

Jesus did not twist the disciples arm or hypnotize them to stay. They did so on their own volition... the contrary is noted in the following verse.
I don't believe Jesus had to twist the disciples' arm or hypnotize them to come to their conclusion. So why would He have to twist Freak80 or TroutDude's arm since they too will see that Christ is the Holy One of God?

Quote:
John 6:70-71 - Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" 71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

Judas voluntarily left Christ... called him a devil.
Actually Judas did not have any other possibility but to disown the Lord:

Act 1:16-20 said, "Men! Brethren! Fulfilled must be the scripture in which the holy spirit said before through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who becomes the guide of those apprehending Jesus, (17) seeing that he was numbered among us, and chanced upon the allotment of this dispensation." (18) (This man, indeed, then, acquires a freehold with the wages of injustice, and coming to fall prone, ruptures in the middle, and all his intestines were poured out." (19) And it became known to all who are dwelling in Jerusalem, so that that freehold is called, in their own vernacular, "Acheldamach, that is, "Freehold of blood.")" (20)
Quote:
For it is written in the scroll of the Psalms, Let his domicile become desolate, And let no one be dwelling in it, and 'Let his supervision be taken by another.' "
Do you see that? Judas could not undo that which God already determined he must do long before he was born. And if that isn't enough, Christ told him:

Joh 13:27 And after the morsel, then, Satan entered into that man. Jesus, then, is saying to him, "What you are doing, do more quickly."

Judas could not fight Satan nor could he fight against Christ telling him to do more quickly what he was born to do. Judas was born for what he had to do.

Last edited by Eusebius; 04-28-2016 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:57 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,463,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why is it ok for you to lie about what I believe? Why would you even try to explain the beliefs of other people? People here so it all the time, and always end up making stuff up.

No, you don't get it. Again, you are trying to explain my view, and end up saying something which is not accurate. God draws people, and one of the means is to open their hearts to the truth. Even then, you can still reject it. Pride gets in the way. I hope you will not reject, although I am beginning to fear that might be the case. Who knows. Like I said, i will leave you in His capable hands.
God chose us before the disruption of the world. And whom He calls these He justifies and whom He justifies these He glorifies. There is no doubt in God's mind what the end result of His choosing will be. Therefore the one who is truly chosen and called will be justified and glorified (period!).

"Nothing can separate us from the love of God," no, not even ourselves.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor messengers, nor sovereignties, nor the present, nor what is impending, nor powers, (39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."

It doesn't say: If you just choose to believe.
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Old 04-28-2016, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,298 posts, read 20,959,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
"Nothing can separate us from the love of God," no, not even ourselves.
So God will force even the unwilling to worship Him?
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,607 posts, read 32,015,814 times
Reputation: 9429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So God will force even the unwilling to worship Him?
Does God love us? Yes, that was never questioned. "For God so loved the world". He even gave His son as a ransom. "that he gave his only Son"

But there is more to it: "Whoever believes in him should not perish"

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

It does NOT say "that no one would perish, and everyone will have eternal life".

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-28-2016 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,569 posts, read 3,896,146 times
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Ah, it's always a fun way to start a fight: Opening yet another Universal Salvation vs Eternal Torment thread. LOL!

End of the day, God is a lot more merciful than the ET'er crowd wants us to believe. A God that would inflict infinite punishment for a finite amount of sin is a cruel and sadistic being, and is in no way similar to the God I know and love. There you go, that's my 2 cents. Let the fight continue!
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:34 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,463,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Ah, it's always a fun way to start a fight: Opening yet another Universal Salvation vs Eternal Torment thread. LOL!

End of the day, God is a lot more merciful than the ET'er crowd wants us to believe. A God that would inflict infinite punishment for a finite amount of sin is a cruel and sadistic being, and is in no way similar to the God I know and love. There you go, that's my 2 cents. Let the fight continue!
Great post!
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:42 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,463,277 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Does God love us? Yes, that was never questioned. "For God so loved the world". He even gave His son as a ransom. "that he gave his only Son"

But there is more to it: "Whoever believes in him should not perish"

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

It does NOT say "that no one would perish, and everyone will have eternal life".
Since this is a good and faithful saying and is to be fully believed that "God will have all mankind to be saved because Christ gave Himself a ransom for all," We can also be fully assured that any scripture which *seems* to contradict God saving all, we know the contradictory idea given to any scripture is a lie.

Yes Finn, it is a lie to believe that if everyone won't eventually have eternal life, and that thought contradicts God will save all mankind, then that thought is a lie. One verse cannot be true at the expense of another.

Since God really will have all mankind to be saved, it is improper to think that for a person to perish that they therefore can never be saved. That would contradict "God will have all mankind to be saved." Since God will save all mankind, it is impossible for "perish" to be for eternity.

Now you can quip that God just desires all mankind to be saved. But then that would contradict that "God IS the Saviour of all mankind" (1 Tim.4:10). Since God IS all mankind's Saviour, God can't just desire all mankind to be saved, He must will it to be so. Why? Because all mankind has been ransomed.
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:46 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,463,277 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post

"Nothing can separate us from the love of God," no, not even ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So God will force even the unwilling to worship Him?
Were you unwilling after God saved you? Did God force you to worship Him?
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,607 posts, read 32,015,814 times
Reputation: 9429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Yes Finn, it is a lie to believe that if everyone won't eventually have eternal life, and that thought contradicts God will save all mankind, then that thought is a lie. One verse cannot be true at the expense of another.
Can we stop pretending it is just one verse, when it is repeated some 200 times?

You are pitting one verse, which you misunderstand, against multitudes of others which prove you wrong.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-28-2016 at 08:16 PM..
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