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Old 04-30-2016, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The eternal torment believers seem content to use scriptures to contradict other scriptures telling us that God will save all mankind due to Christ ransoming all, contradict scriptures telling us that God is going to make all mankind righteous, reconciled, headed up in Christ, God All in all (not All in some).
There is no contradiction. The problem is that you do not understand the verses, and the faulty understanding creates contradictions with the rest of the Bible.
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Old 04-30-2016, 02:48 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,461,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There is no contradiction. The problem is that you do not understand the verses, and the faulty understanding creates contradictions with the rest of the Bible.
Why do you believe that it's not the other way around and it's your faulty understanding that leads you to the conclusion that most of humanity will suffer horrible torment forever ? URs have no need to avoid any scripture, only to provide the proper original meaning of misinterpreted yet popularly accepted erroneous words . ETs must find ways to ignore and explain away plain scripture , and also to find a way to accept a God that is basically incapable of doing what it says it wants to and will do.

Last edited by wallflash; 04-30-2016 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 04-30-2016, 07:07 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,217,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Why do you believe that it's not the other way around and it's your faulty understanding that leads you to the conclusion that most of humanity will suffer horrible torment forever ? URs have no need to avoid any scripture, only to provide the proper original meaning of misinterpreted yet popularly accepted erroneous words . ETs must find ways to ignore and explain away plain scripture , and also to find a way to accept a God that is basically incapable of doing what it says it wants to and will do.
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:18 PM
 
9,162 posts, read 2,773,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The eternal torment believers seem content to use scriptures to contradict other scriptures telling us that God will save all mankind due to Christ ransoming all, contradict scriptures telling us that God is going to make all mankind righteous, reconciled, headed up in Christ, God All in all (not All in some).

Satan did the same thing: "Hath God said?"

2 Timothy 3:8-9 Now, by the method by which Jannes and Jambres withstand Moses, thus these also are withstanding the truth, men of a depraved mind, disqualified as to the faith." (9) But they shall not be progressing more, for their folly shall be obvious to all, as that of those also became."

It is improper to use one set of scriptures to contradict another set. In so doing, one cannot arrive at the truth.

Yes, there are judgments on the horizon for mankind. Both the ET and UR believers can agree on that. But to make the judgments be God's end-all for humanity is to contradict the scriptures detailing God's goal to save all mankind.

Why oh why the ET crowd cannot come to understand that it is impossible for AIWN/eon to be eternal, simply for the fact that the Bible says all the eons end, I can only surmise that God has not opened their eyes to such a simple truth. And so they go on blathering away, day after day with this eternal torment garbage.

Dear ETers, the eons end. They end. Do you understand what that means? Obviously not. And by the same method which Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so you continue to withstand the truth. But your magic fails. Your folly is already apparent to all.

They can't see He created 1000 year days, which had an end, so why would they see eons or ages?


I asked Him one time why most couldn't see this truth, and He simply said He can only reveal it to those that are ready. All trees bear fruit in their own season, Amen? Peace
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:10 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
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Dear ones who believe in Eternal Torment, tell me what this means:

Mat 13:37-42 Now He, answering, said, "He Who is sowing the ideal seed is the Son of Mankind. (38) Now the field is the
world. Now the ideal seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. Now the darnel are the sons of the wicked one. (39) Now
the enemy who sows them is the Adversary. Now the harvest is the conclusion of the eon. Now the reapers are
messengers. (40) Even as the darnel, then, are being culled and burned up with fire, thus shall it be in the conclusion of
the eon. (41) The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the
snares and those doing lawlessness, (42) and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation
and gnashing of teeth.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post

The eternal torment believers seem content to use scriptures to contradict other scriptures telling us that God will save all mankind due to Christ ransoming all, contradict scriptures telling us that God is going to make all mankind righteous, reconciled, headed up in Christ, God All in all (not All in some).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There is no contradiction. The problem is that you do not understand the verses, and the faulty understanding creates contradictions with the rest of the Bible.
This verse, in a poorly translated version:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

definitely contradicts this verse:
1Ti 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; (4) Who will have all humans to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

However, this verse from Young's Literal translation:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

does not contradict this verse:

1Ti 2:3-6 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, (4) who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth; (5) for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, (6) who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
This verse, in a poorly translated version:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I did not mention that verse. I mentioned John 3 16, and added that the same message is repeated over, and over and over, some 200 times. Those who believe are saved. UR contradicts all of them. You explain the contradiction way by talking about some kind of after death conversion process, but Jesus never said there is such process. On the contrary, the Bible specifically says we are destined to die, and then be judged.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:20 AM
 
17,688 posts, read 8,860,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I did not mention that verse. I mentioned John 3 16, and added that the same message is repeated over, and over and over, some 200 times. Those who believe are saved. UR contradicts all of them. You explain the contradiction way by talking about some kind of after death conversion process, but Jesus never said there is such process. On the contrary, the Bible specifically says we are destined to die, and then be judged.
Your version of judgment leads to condemnation, not life more abundantly.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:52 PM
 
4,564 posts, read 2,264,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I did not mention that verse. I mentioned John 3 16,..... On the contrary, the Bible specifically says we are destined to die, and then be judged.

( Except for those of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 who will Not have a resurrection )
The rest of the dead will be judged on what they do ' after ' they are resurrected - Acts 24:15
Not judged on what they did ' before ' they died because the dead are freed or acquitted from sin - Romans 6:7
That does Not mean they are now innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick,
Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick.- Matthew 20:28
One's death opens up the way for Jesus to apply his ransom sacrifice for us - Romans 6:23; Rev. 1:18
So, there is No post-mortem penalty just sleep for the dead until resurrected - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 15:17; 146:4
Some resurrected to heaven - Rev. 20:6;2:10, but most people to have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.

The people who are still alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37 - will be ' judged ' before the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
The humble ' sheep ' will have a ' righteous judgement ' - Matthew 25:37
The haughty ' goats ' will have an ' adverse judgement '.
The ' sheep ' can have the same opportunity to live forever on Earth as was offered to Adam before his downfall.
The ' goats ' are classed as wicked to be destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Jer. 25:31-33; Rev. 19:11,14-16.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:32 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
Reputation: 989
Dear ones who believe in Eternal Torment, tell me what this means:

Mat 13:37-42 Now He, answering, said, "He Who is sowing the ideal seed is the Son of Mankind. (38) Now the field is the
world. Now the ideal seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. Now the darnel are the sons of the wicked one. (39) Now
the enemy who sows them is the Adversary. Now the harvest is the conclusion of the eon. Now the reapers are
messengers. (40) Even as the darnel, then, are being culled and burned up with fire, thus shall it be in the conclusion of
the eon. (41) The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the
snares and those doing lawlessness, (42) and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation
and gnashing of teeth.
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