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Old 05-02-2016, 11:43 PM
 
Location: USA
3,008 posts, read 1,044,929 times
Reputation: 870

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[quote=Katzpur;43918256]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Nope. Just a difference of opinion. As far as I'm concerned, it's only their bodies that are dead. Quite dead, as you pointed out. I believe their spirits are as alive as they ever were. I'm not trying to convince you of that; I'm just stating my own belief.
You "believe that their spirits are alive today." Which is simply another way of saying, "that's the way things are in my imagination." Because you entirely made that up. What we actually OBSERVE however, is that the dead die and remain dead. Make believe has yet to change that. "I believe" is just another way of saying," it's true because that's what I prefer to think is true." But that doesn't actually amount to a hill beans does it? Everyone who lived 2,000 years ago IS STILL DEAD. And that's NOT make believe.
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Old 05-03-2016, 06:51 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Actually, you have a will but it is not free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Of course, it is free. It is just not unlimited. Choice IS ours and that is all the freedom our will needs. Anything more would be Godlike.
No, in fact, our wills are not free. The Bible calls our will "The will of the flesh." We know the flesh is at enmity to God and cannot please God (see Romans 8). That being the case, our wills are not free to be at peace with God and are not free to please God.

Our choice is based on the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want."
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:13 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Actually, you have a will but it is not free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
If it's not free, then it's not free will. Anything that comes with an IOU and a bill at the end, is a credit account. And an account that must be settled whether one chooses to subscribe or not, is not free will. It's usury.
That is correct that if it is not free then it is not free will. It is will but it is not free.
Humanity is the slave of Sin.
Why? Because humanity is flesh and our flesh has death operating in it and it is for that reason we sin.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:15 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You're going. UR mandates it. It'll be bible study the 1st 8 hours of the day, harp playing the next 8 and and worship the third 8.
Where is that in the Bible?
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:23 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,425,536 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I did not mention that verse. I mentioned John 3 16, and added that the same message is repeated over, and over and over, some 200 times. Those who believe are saved. UR contradicts all of them. You explain the contradiction way by talking about some kind of after death conversion process, but Jesus never said there is such process. On the contrary, the Bible specifically says we are destined to die, and then be judged.
Finn, I agree with you that those who believe are saved. Can you agree with me that those who believe were chosen before the disruption of the world?

Now then, those who believe are saved to live through the next two eons/ages which are the 1000 year reign of Christ and the new earth. Do you see that? But what we see is that in the next age, there are kingdoms on the earth, some are goat nations and some sheep nations and the nation of Israel. Those nations comprise many millions of unsaved people. At the end of that eon/age, Satan is let out of his prison and deceived the nations again.

So it is not a matter of heaven vs. hell for the next two ages/eons. It is a matter of being saved for eonian life which is the life pertaining to the next two ages/eons or not being saved for that but rather living a shortened life and dying for the unsaved.

If all humanity are destined to die ONCE and then the judgment, why is it humanity is destined to be judged first and then enter the second death?

Last edited by Eusebius; 05-03-2016 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Where is that in the Bible?
Its not. Its in your posts.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:33 AM
 
9,162 posts, read 2,773,481 times
Reputation: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
That is correct that if it is not free then it is not free will. It is will but it is not free.
Humanity is the slave of Sin.
Why? Because humanity is flesh and our flesh has death operating in it and it is for that reason we sin.
Perfect assessment. Peace
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Old 05-03-2016, 09:51 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,461,384 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Its not. Its in your posts.


Where did he say this?
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Where did he say this?
Are you saying UR does not result in everyone being saved

Poster "Tired of the Nonsense" said he did not want to be saved, but if UR is true, then he will be saved whether he wants it or not.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:35 AM
 
10,179 posts, read 10,538,351 times
Reputation: 3015
I think Rodger left this conversation long ago. Reading the last few pages, who can blame him?
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