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Old 05-07-2016, 05:21 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
Reputation: 989

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
So many people have tried to explain it to you, but you are not getting it. He was given as ransom for all, but if a person rejects it, then he/she chooses to remain in bondage.

"whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life"

Same message is repeated so many times that anyone who rejects it, is doing it willingly.
Dear Finn,
I see you have not gone through every verse where ransom is used in the Bible. If you did you would know that a slave can refuse to be ransomed. But if he wants his next of kin to ransom him from slavery, then once the ransom is paid he MUST leave. He MUST be freed.

Were you able to refuse to be ransomed before Christ gave Himself a ransom for you? I didn't think so.

One of the other problems I see with your theology is that you think salvation is offered and you either get eternal damnation or eternal life. The problem is with the word aionion which your errant translation translated as "eternal." Those who believe get life for the future eons. Those who do not believe miss out on the future eons. At the consummation of the eons, everyone enters into salvation due to Christ dying for OUR (our being all mankind's) sins. All mankind likewise have been ransomed.
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:22 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
So let's see if I've got this: He will accomplish all that He desires, but forcing someone to come to Him is not one of His desires so He doesn't have to accomplish that?
Yea, his God really really wants to save all mankind but Satan is just too powerful for God. Satan gets his billions and God a measily few. Is that fair, even after Christ already died for every sin of every human?
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,474 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9406
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
So let's see if I've got this: He will accomplish all that He desires, but forcing someone to come to Him is not one of His desires so He doesn't have to accomplish that?
Path to salvation: whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

His desire is that everyone would take that path (believe in Him)

It is not complicated, but as the Bible teaches: "he word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing".
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:36 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,168 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2106
Universalists like fundamentalists believe they are saved from eternal separation from God, the only difference in their beliefs is in numbers that are saved.

They are both in error, for salvation was never about salvation from eternal hell. To believe such a thing is open your heart to all that hell and eternal separation from God is to YOU.
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:38 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Path to salvation: whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

His desire is that everyone would take that path (believe in Him)

It is not complicated, but as the Bible teaches: "he word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing".

Christ came to seek and to save the perishing sheep. No one is so perished that they cannot be saved. In fact, often perishing is a prerequisite to Christ saving you.

You know what I think Finn? I think you are a Pharisee. You must be sooooo proud that Youuuuu made the right decision and tough luck if your mom or dad or little son or daughter goes to hell. You made the right choice, they didn't. So they get what they deserve. You are sick.
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,474 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You know what I think Finn? I think you are a Pharisee. You must be sooooo proud that Youuuuu made the right decision and tough luck if your mom or dad or little son or daughter goes to hell. You made the right choice, they didn't. So they get what they deserve. You are sick.
Well, if you say I am sick pharisee, then it must be so

LOL
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:49 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,168 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Christ came to seek and to save the perishing sheep. No one is so perished that they cannot be saved. In fact, often perishing is a prerequisite to Christ saving you.

You know what I think Finn? I think you are a Pharisee. You must be sooooo proud that Youuuuu made the right decision and tough luck if your mom or dad or little son or daughter goes to hell. You made the right choice, they didn't. So they get what they deserve. You are sick.
Euse - What do you think perishing is meaning ?. Your second paragraph makes perfectly good sense if salvation is dependent upon the anti bible version of right belief. It never was ever about believing the right things.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:16 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Christ came to seek and to save the perishing sheep. No one is so perished that they cannot be saved. In fact, often perishing is a prerequisite to Christ saving you.

You know what I think Finn? I think you are a Pharisee. You must be sooooo proud that Youuuuu made the right decision and tough luck if your mom or dad or little son or daughter goes to hell. You made the right choice, they didn't. So they get what they deserve. You are sick.
It is not the sheep that "perish"
Matthew 25:32-46
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as
a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, (the sheep)
‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world."
“Then he will say to those on his left, (the perishing goats)
Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels "

of course you can only but make "ABBOTT & COSTELLO" routine word shell games to purposefully make "all = all inclusive" to have Jesus say something other to those separated on his left from those on his right (who btw never spoken of being reunited again)

Last edited by twin.spin; 05-07-2016 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:29 PM
 
10,179 posts, read 10,541,144 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Yea, his God really really wants to save all mankind but Satan is just too powerful for God. Satan gets his billions and God a measily few. Is that fair, even after Christ already died for every sin of every human?

We sometimes tangle but often I really like your philosophy on much of this, Eusebius. Your #641 was excellent and I tried to rep you but the system won't let me and that's funny because I don't recall ever repping you before, maybe I did a long time ago when I was a fundamentalist.
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Old 05-08-2016, 03:06 AM
 
34,462 posts, read 8,876,928 times
Reputation: 4786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Yea, his God really really wants to save all mankind but Satan is just too powerful for God. Satan gets his billions and God a measily few. Is that fair, even after Christ already died for every sin of every human?
You are kidding, right? God thinks he is getting underpaid, And he owns the firm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear Finn,
I see you have not gone through every verse where ransom is used in the Bible. If you did you would know that a slave can refuse to be ransomed. But if he wants his next of kin to ransom him from slavery, then once the ransom is paid he MUST leave. He MUST be freed.

Were you able to refuse to be ransomed before Christ gave Himself a ransom for you? I didn't think so.

One of the other problems I see with your theology is that you think salvation is offered and you either get eternal damnation or eternal life. The problem is with the word aionion which your errant translation translated as "eternal." Those who believe get life for the future eons. Those who do not believe miss out on the future eons. At the consummation of the eons, everyone enters into salvation due to Christ dying for OUR (our being all mankind's) sins. All mankind likewise have been ransomed.
But I have to agree with Finn, here. The ransom is paid and everyone can go free, if they want.

If they don't want, they don't get forced. I'll skip the tricky bit about how that means that God cannot do whatever he likes since our refusal to go free means that he can't make us. Admittedly he made that rule in the first place, but then, he made all the rules.

No, I just wonder, if we refuse to be ransomed, what happens to us? You don't believe in Hell, so what do we get?
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