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Old 05-22-2016, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
595 posts, read 209,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
if you are able to make that choice, then you would be omnipotent.
You cannot choose whether to exist or not in the first place. That is logically impossible. But you can choose whether to embrace the challenge of life in learning and growing, or not. You can choose what you become... until you throw away your ability to choose in bad habits that destroy the things (like awareness) which make choices possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
However, I do not believe there has ever been a separation from that which created all things.
That either leaves you with the creepy denial of the realities of evil in the world or a creator who is evil or inept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
And I doubt that anything you have to say about being a Trinitarian would surprise me?
Some prophesies are self-fulfilling. Belief is part of the process of perception. So people tend to only see what they want to see.
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:13 PM
 
17,698 posts, read 8,870,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellmckain View Post
You cannot choose whether to exist or not in the first place. That is logically impossible. But you can choose whether to embrace the challenge of life in learning and growing, or not. You can choose what you become... until you throw away your ability to choose in bad habits that destroy the things (like awareness) which make choices possible.
Although we cannot totally change our nature, we may in great measure correct it through reflection and philosophy.

Quote:
That either leaves you with the creepy denial of the realities of evil in the world or a creator who is evil or inept.
I would not go so far as to say that we, as sentient beings do not comprehend the realities of our own actions.
However, r
emoving the dross can be a delicate process, lest you also eliminate or contaminate the good.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:40 PM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,014,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellmckain View Post
The "power of love" is an oxymoron. The moment what you call love becomes a means to power, it ceases to be love at all.
Personally, I think...The power of love is a curious thing. Make a one man weep, make another man sing Change a hawk to a little white dove More than a feeling that's the power of love...(Instrumental)

Sorry I saw this and I couldn't help myself... ..guess that's the Power of Love.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
595 posts, read 209,855 times
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Of course there is a difference between the power of something we do not control and the power of a tool.
There is no doubt that a tornado is powerful, but not as something you can use. They are too unpredictable.
Thus we can speak of the power of love also in such a way. It has an great impact on our lives and changes us (and no, I am not saying that love is always like a tornado in every way).
But if you talk about using some "power of love" to accomplish things then isn't love anymore but manipulation. Whether it be churches or family, it isn't pretty when people try to do this -- just rather sickening.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:10 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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The point of the thread is that universal salvation is assured.

Salvation is not based upon what we do but upon what Christ accomplished in His death, burial and resurrection for all.

1 Timothy 2:4-6 give us the reason why it is God is going to save all mankind: Christ gave Himself a ransom for all. All mankind has been ransomed. One who is ransomed must be freed. All mankind are enslaved or locked up to sin and death. Therefore all mankind must be freed from sin and death and brought into God's salvation.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:31 AM
 
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There are 5 eons in the bible. The problem with some translations is they translation "aion" as "world" at times rather than "eon" or "age" and thus hide this truth.

The bible tells us all the eons end.

Since eonian is the adjective derived from its noun "eon," it has the duty of informing us of what pertains to the eon or eons as the case may be.

Therefore in Matthew 25:46 both the chastening the nations endure and the life some nations get is eonian or pertaining to that eon.

Therefore there is no such thing as "eternal torment." Both the chastening and the life in that verse are of the same duration: "eonian"; pertaining to the eon.

All salvation by faith is for the oncoming final two eons. When those eons end the believer keeps on living since he has immortality and incorruption.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:39 AM
 
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Dear Bible student, this is part of Paul's thesis in Romans chapter 5:

Rom 5:12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world,
and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned -"

Is that fair that all mankind suffer due to one man's sin? Is it fair that death passed through into all mankind due to Adam's one act?

Did you have to believe in Adam in order to get death passed through into you?

What is God going to do about this? In fact, what has God done about this? The answer is not far to find:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation,
thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners,
thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

So Paul outlines how all mankind are affected by just one act of two men: Adam and Jesus.

All mankind are neutral recipients of both men's one act.

The "as it was" and "thus also" tell us one is just like the other.
The "even as" and "thus also" likewise tell us one is just like the other in that their one act affects all mankind.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:29 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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Here is an excellent short writing concerning "Will God Save All or Only Some?"
Will God save all or only some?
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:01 PM
 
17,698 posts, read 8,870,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Here is an excellent short writing concerning "Will God Save All or Only Some?"
Will God save all or only some?
It doesn't fill the hardest-heat with joy.
First, the stones will have to be removed.
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Old 05-28-2016, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
595 posts, read 209,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear Bible student, this is part of Paul's thesis in Romans chapter 5:

Rom 5:12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world,
and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned -"

Is that fair that all mankind suffer due to one man's sin? Is it fair that death passed through into all mankind due to Adam's one act?
That depends on how childish your concept of fairness is. Is fair that some animals are born rats, others dogs, others as pigs, some as cows and others as humans? Clearly the world was never made to operate according to such a ridiculous idea of "fairness". But there is a more rational concept of fairness regarding to how we treat with different people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Did you have to believe in Adam in order to get death passed through into you?
No.
Do you have to be born a man rather than a cow in order to get sin "passed through into you?"
Yes.

It is a matter of inheritance. We inherit the good with the bad. It is part of how life works.

As usual your argument for universalism is aimed at the Gnostic legalists who teach a gospel of salvation by works of the mind -- belief in dogma and ideological capitulation. But while the Biblical basis for rejecting eternal hell and pushing universalism is poor, the Biblical basis for rejecting legalism is excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
What is God going to do about this? In fact, what has God done about this? The answer is not far to find:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation,
thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners,
thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

So Paul outlines how all mankind are affected by just one act of two men: Adam and Jesus.

All mankind are neutral recipients of both men's one act.
The question is how? Thaumaturgy? Sympathetic magic?
No.
Again the answer is inheritance! It is by inheritance that one man can affect us all.
But...
That introduces the question of how do we inherit?
This is not a genetic inheritance but a memetic one. One man changes the world by introducing ideas which change how everyone thinks. Now this sound a little bit like belief, but it is not the same. The ideas of one man can change the world without making everything think precisely the same. And human beings have a strong tendency to obsess about the wrong things. The affect of the ideas introduced by Jesus are hardly limited to those who call themselves Christians. Even the atheists have been affected.

But then just because a new inheritance becomes available doesn't mean that everyone partakes of it.

The NT speaks about this inheritance which includes eternal life a lot and it does not speak of it as something which comes to everyone -- not at all.
Matthew 5:5 Matthew 19:29 Matthew 25:34 Colossians 1:12 Colossians 3:24 Ephesians 1:14 Ephesians 1:18
Galatians 3:18 1 Corinthians 15:50 Luke 10:25 Luke 18:18

Indeed it speaks quite bit about those who will not inherit.
Ephesians 5:5 Galatians 4:30 Galatians 5:21 1 Corinthians 6:9 1 Corinthians 6:10 Acts 20:32 Romans 4:13
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