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Old 05-28-2016, 11:34 PM
 
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1 Timothy 2:4
... who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of [the] truth.

And in the ongoing result of that action; desires (wants, wills) all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. The action is indicative. Nowhere is it subjunctive, or that of being contingent or probable, nor imperative on the subjects response. Neither is it Optative, as in being unlikely or wishful thinking - that mankind might come to this salvation and knowledge.


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Old 05-29-2016, 05:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
1 Timothy 2:4
... who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of [the] truth.

And in the ongoing result of that action; desires (wants, wills) all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. The action is indicative. Nowhere is it subjunctive, or that of being contingent or probable, nor imperative on the subjects response. Neither is it Optative, as in being unlikely or wishful thinking - that mankind might come to this salvation and knowledge.
The reason given as to why God will have mankind to be saved is:. . . FOR . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for all.

All mankind have been ransomed.

Any human or animal ransomed must be freed.

All mankind must be freed from slavery to sin and death and brought into God's salvation of immortality and incorruption. It is all right there in 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It doesn't fill the hardest-heat with joy.
First, the stones will have to be removed.
Then that will occur.
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mitchellmckain View Post
As usual your argument for universalism is aimed at the Gnostic legalists who teach a gospel of salvation by works of the mind -- belief in dogma and ideological capitulation. But while the Biblical basis for rejecting eternal hell and pushing universalism is poor, the Biblical basis for rejecting legalism is excellent.
No, not really. God saving all is not dependent upon proper knowledge but is actually based upon what Christ did whether anyone believes it or not.


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The question is how? Thaumaturgy? Sympathetic magic?
No.
Again the answer is inheritance! It is by inheritance that one man can affect us all.
But...
That introduces the question of how do we inherit?
This is not a genetic inheritance but a memetic one. One man changes the world by introducing ideas which change how everyone thinks. Now this sound a little bit like belief, but it is not the same. The ideas of one man can change the world without making everything think precisely the same. And human beings have a strong tendency to obsess about the wrong things. The affect of the ideas introduced by Jesus are hardly limited to those who call themselves Christians. Even the atheists have been affected.
No, it isn't based on inheritance but rather based upon what two men did.
All mankind are affected by Adam's one act and all mankind, even atheists, will be made righteous due to Christ's one righteous act.

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But then just because a new inheritance becomes available doesn't mean that everyone partakes of it.
Actually all mankind will be saved.

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The NT speaks about this inheritance which includes eternal life a lot and it does not speak of it as something which comes to everyone -- not at all.
Matthew 5:5 Matthew 19:29 Matthew 25:34 Colossians 1:12 Colossians 3:24 Ephesians 1:14 Ephesians 1:18
Galatians 3:18 1 Corinthians 15:50 Luke 10:25 Luke 18:18
It isn't "eternal life" the Bible speaks of but rather aionion zoe or "age-during" or eonian life which is life for the oncoming eons. Not all mankind get eonian life. Remember "God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially them that believe." So the believer gets an especial salvation prior to the rest of mankind coming into it.

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Indeed it speaks quite bit about those who will not inherit.
Ephesians 5:5 Galatians 4:30 Galatians 5:21 1 Corinthians 6:9 1 Corinthians 6:10 Acts 20:32 Romans 4:13
True, some will not inherit during the eons/ages. But in the end, all will be saved.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:50 PM
 
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You would think Christians would receive this as good and acceptable:

"God will have all mankind to be saved and come into a realization of the truth . . . for . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for all."

But they don't believe it. They explain it away and use other scriptures to contradict God's will for all mankind. Stay out of their churches. They are unbelievers masquerading as believers. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
They are wolves in sheep's clothing.
(music starts)...Who's that I see walking in the woods?...why its Little Red Ri..I mean a UR Believer. LOL Doesn't have quite the same ring to it
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
(music starts)...Who's that I see walking in the woods?...why its Little Red Ri..I mean a UR Believer. LOL Doesn't have quite the same ring to it
That's okay. It still works. LOL
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:48 PM
 
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Default Universal salvation assured

It is assured if you believe that Jesus is our Savior. Saviors SAVE they do NOT give gifts. It is finished.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is assured if you believe that Jesus is our Savior. Saviors SAVE they do NOT give gifts. It is finished.
I would even go so far as to suggest that universal salvation is assured even if no one believes it.

Christ died for everyone even if everyone does not believe it. Their believing it does not make it so.


I agree. Saviors SAVE. Saviors do not offer salvation.
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is assured if you believe that Jesus is our Savior. Saviors SAVE they do NOT give gifts. It is finished.



Not what Jesus taught--Matt 7:21-23--he assured all right here that only those living to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom--there is a whole bible of that will.
You see--they did powerful works and the such in Jesus name--obviously they believe wholeheartedly yet Jesus will tell them--- Get away from me you worker of iniquity I must confess I never even knew you. ( this is judgement scenario) and because 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian are misleading all who listen to them, their jaws will be dropped by those words of Jesus at judgement. All the teachers assuring others they are saved or born again--run from them.
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