U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-25-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
3,348 posts, read 972,728 times
Reputation: 98

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
His Father sent him to the lost sheep of Israel...Period...
ok, but what does that mean? If the Son is sent only for the lost, then the rest are saved, and you are essentially agreeing with the OP, aren't you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-25-2016, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
Post Eventually everyone will be saved

The death and resurrection of Jesus guarantees the eventual salvation of everyone.
ELECTION
Eventually everyone will be saved.
Because men have failed to see and understand the doctrine of election, it has propagated false ideas of salvation. Many seek to limit it to believers, but they overlook the significance of the double statement.
"In 1Tim. 4:9-11 we are told that the living God `is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of those who believe,' and with this 1Tim. 2: 4-6 concurs. Many seek to limit it to believers, but they overlook the significance of the double statement. That there is a special salvation for believers is plainly stated, but this does not limit the other part of the statement, rather does it emphasize it. The salvation of believers is a special work; they are a special class in the `all mankind.' God's will for mankind is salvation, not as an experimental salvation toying with the will and choice of men, but as their Disposer – God.
My dear brethren, let us embrace this glorious truth which God has revealed for us. Let it so become a part of us that our lives will be reflecting it. Let it fill our hearts with the love of God and His glorious Son. Let us be rendering praise to the living God, the universal Creator and Reconciler, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
`To Him be glory for the eons! Amen!' " - E.G.Jones

REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS - J. Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/allinall.html

At the present time salvation is enjoyed only by those who believe; the balance of mankind will be saved at the consummation. A savior is one who actually saves. God is the savior of all mankind, not just the ‘potential’ savior. When the truth concerning the eons displaces the error about eternity, judgment and grace are seen to work harmoniously together till each reaches its predestined goal. All the threats of punishment to follow the judgment of the wicked can be accepted at their full, dreadful value without doing violence to our innate sense of justice, and without denying the predictions of a final victory of grace.
Don Bast

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-25-2016 at 10:19 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 11:33 AM
 
1,489 posts, read 611,241 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
His Father sent him to the lost sheep of Israel...Period...
Interesting view. Technically, and in the flesh, this is probably true. But there's a lot more to it, such as the Christ element and when returned to the Father, the Holy Ghost element. It would be difficult to say that there wasn't a demonstration or model of how people are supposed to find their life in Father, through Jesus' example. And this is how He reconciles all people to the Father, by being the first-born of a new and better way, of which we've had only the smatterings so far. The greater measure is coming as Rodger identifies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 11:35 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,138 posts, read 19,958,111 times
Reputation: 2105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
His Father sent him to the lost sheep of Israel...Period...
Thank God we Jews are not like those Gentiles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
Post God's purpose for the present and the future

THE GOSPEL OF GRACE – CHARLES W. WELLER
“Love conquers all, for it is the love of God that allows humanity to see its frailty that in the bitter dregs it may choose life. I thank the Lord that the plan of redemption wasn’t a stop gap measure but a well thought out plan that in the fullness of time, all will have Christ as their head. Victory in Jesus!
Before creation there was no time. Since creation there has been time. But with the consummation of things and God becoming All in all, time will end, and sin, which is limited by time shall end. Yet, God and creation shall go on.
If God cannot surmount the evil in the world and turn it all into good, then there is a power equal and opposite to Him. But sin isn’t eternal. The cross of Calvary isn’t a ‘hope so’ move by God, but rather, a well conceived thought out solution to the problem of sin. There is an end to sin and to the death it causes. All shall be swallowed up into victory. Some, God has planned to accept Him now. Others, like Pharaoh, He hardens their heart. But being a righteous Judge He will show wrath on those who need it to cleanse them of their fallen nature.
The plan of God is such that His grace, that unmerited favor, will cause man and all of creation to be restored The mercy and love of God is to be so revealed that Jesus shall be All in all.
The purpose for the present is to save some. The purpose for the future is to save all. Because men have failed to see and understand the doctrine of election, it has propagated false ideas of salvation. Even he who dies in sin shall be saved as by fire. Victorious grace covers a larger redemption than many would consider.”
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 06:36 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,217,301 times
Reputation: 5853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
His Father sent him to the lost sheep of Israel...Period...
But they rejected Him. The builders rejected the one who has become the cornerstone. What does that say to you, Richard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Thank God we Jews are not like those Gentiles.
He does tend to come off very cliquish, pcamps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
ok, but what does that mean? If the Son is sent only for the lost, then the rest are saved, and you are essentially agreeing with the OP, aren't you?
Intersting point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
Interesting view. Technically, and in the flesh, this is probably true. But there's a lot more to it, such as the Christ element and when returned to the Father, the Holy Ghost element. It would be difficult to say that there wasn't a demonstration or model of how people are supposed to find their life in Father, through Jesus' example. And this is how He reconciles all people to the Father, by being the first-born of a new and better way, of which we've had only the smatterings so far. The greater measure is coming as Rodger identifies.
The important part to Christ's mission has been achieved. It is finished. He saved us all from eternal separation from God. Everything else, including who He came for, is irrelevant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
Post shall be experienced ultimately by ALL MEN

"When we understand the glorious truth that our God is both the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, then we realize that no matter how vast the cycle and circuit, the end is secure, for all things return unto Him again. To read only a portion of God's Word, the facts are too few to rightly calculate the CURVE of God's plan. And while HE does, gloriously, illumine a specific verse or sentence to speak to our hearts for that day, we also need the full sweep of the Book to gain an overall view of His purpose, and then understand the tremendous victory which is ours in Christ".
Long milleniums ago Adam was banished from the Paradise of God and its life-giving tree. But God has provided a way by which His banished may return! Some glad morning, when the unfolding plan of God is complete, all who once stood "in Adam" in the Garden will again be gathered together and their eyes will behold with endless joy that heaven blest Eden in which walked Adam, the son of God.
But even now there is a remnant, the election of grace, the firstfruits of His redemption WHO IN SPIRIT HAVE ENTERED THOSE ONCE-CLOSED PORTALS AND HAVE PARTAKEN OF THE FRUIT OF THE TREE OF LIFE! In the power of the Christ, the last Adam, though the firstfruits of Christ's redemption still move about in a world which is under the curse, where the traces of sin are visible on all hands, these have found their way, by faith, to the bosom of the Father, and are NOW AT HOME AGAIN IN GOD! The mighty transformation that has come and is coming to our lives shall be experienced ultimately by ALL MEN, God's own law of circularity secures it, and none can resist it, praise His glorious name!"

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
https://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Il
386 posts, read 213,338 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
ARMINIAN BELIEF VERSUS CALVINIST BELIEF VERSUS UNIVERSAL SALVATION BELIEF

ARMINIAN BELIEF - It's as if God says
“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my Son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my Son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will either annihilate you, or sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment.”

Christ's apparent mission: To save from annihilation or eternal torment only those who are lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they die, and also have enough good sense to properly cooperate with Him before they die.

CALVINIST BELIEF - It's as if God says
"Since there is nothing you can do about it because you are totally depraved and you are not one of the elect, it is obvious that I created most of you for the purpose of either annihilating you or letting you suffer eternal torment. However, I am going to unconditionally choose a few of you to go to heaven where you will be happy forever."

Christ's apparent mission: To let everyone be annihilated, or suffer eternal torment except the unconditionally elected few that He rescues by His irresistible grace.

UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION BELIEF (mine) – God says
“Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, I am going to save all of you from everything from which you needto be saved, including your stubborn will.”

Christ's scriptural mission: 'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world' (1John 4:14).

I worship a Jesus Who will be completely successful in accomplishing the reason why His Father sent Him.

Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world(Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"

THE AGES COLLECTIVELY COME TO AN END WITH EVERYONE SAVED

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Arminianism and Calvinism isn't too bad if non believers are annihilated in the end. Eternal torment though is troubling for both views.

Arminianism makes more sense because it means that you can earn your eternal life as opposed to just having it randomly given to you. Universal Salvation would be the most satisfying of them all. The Bible seems to support either Arminianism or Calvinism I'm not sure which. Both? I don't see much evidence from the Bible though of Universalism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2016, 11:53 PM
 
1,489 posts, read 611,241 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
He saved us all from eternal separation from God.
Do you really believe that?

It wouldn't be a narrative conceived in the heart of a person who IS love, now would it. Since, there are at least 4 erroneous words in there: saved, eternal, separation and God. ...for completeness, 'all' is about the only correct word in there! :-)

Saved; reconcile is much better. We were one with Father before we went off to the pig stye.

eternal; no such word, originally, in language.

separation; an invention of the mind of man. When there is a Christ seed in everyone, separation is the same as the illusion of the vain appearance realm we live in.

God; created in man's image as a tool to control and dominate; from and of religion.

I've no problem with 'God' drawing us back to Himself, through Jesus and the message of the cross, by utilising and appealing to the paganistic practices of our forefathers - if I were a forefather, I would have been and done exactly the same. But we don't live then - we live now, and consciousness (Spirit) has arisen a few higher degrees in the heart of mankind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2016, 12:37 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
ok, but what does that mean? If the Son is sent only for the lost, then the rest are saved, and you are essentially agreeing with the OP, aren't you?
Do you know who the Lost Sheep Of The House of Israel are?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top