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Old 09-26-2016, 01:40 AM
 
Location: US
26,293 posts, read 13,949,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Thank God we Jews are not like those Gentiles.
No...That's not what I meant and you know that...
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Old 09-26-2016, 04:06 AM
 
7,868 posts, read 6,675,483 times
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Initially Jesus was called to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel as God knew He would remove Abraham bosom and turn His power over to Jesus , so God only had limited time to close down Judaism faith which very few had ............ BUT God had a new plan which to prophet says from Joel 2:28-32.... `That I will pour out My spirit on all flesh and who so ever calls on the name of the Lord , Shall Be Saved ``..........See God`s blessing through cross of Jesus which came at Pentecost is for all people who call on the name of the Lord sounds like the same doctrine on Arminianism dogma ......
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,744,252 times
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Post Two good studies of all points of view

TWO GOOD STUDIES OF ALL POINTS OF VIEW

https://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

absolute assurance in jesus christ
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:10 AM
 
Location: US
26,293 posts, read 13,949,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Initially Jesus was called to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel as God knew He would remove Abraham bosom and turn His power over to Jesus , so God only had limited time to close down Judaism faith which very few had ............ BUT God had a new plan which to prophet says from Joel 2:28-32.... `That I will pour out My spirit on all flesh and who so ever calls on the name of the Lord , Shall Be Saved ``..........See God`s blessing through cross of Jesus which came at Pentecost is for all people who call on the name of the Lord sounds like the same doctrine on Arminianism dogma ......

There was nothing "initial" about it...

There is no Joel 2:28-32, Joel 2 only goes up to 27...

Yoel 2:

27 And you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and I am the Lord your God, there is no other; and My people shall never be ashamed.

Yoel 3:

1 And it shall come to pass afterwards that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and daughters shall prophesy; your elders shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.

Taking verse 27 in chapter 2, it seems to be talking about the Jews, G-d's people...Hmmm...It is them whom G-d will pour out His Spirit on...

2 And even upon the slaves and the maidservants in those days will I pour out My spirit.

3 And I will perform signs in the heavens and on the earth: Blood, fire, and pillars of smoke.

4 The sun shall turn to darkness, and the moon to blood, prior to the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

5 And it shall come to pass that whoever shall call in the name of the Lord shall be delivered, for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be a deliverance, as the Lord said, and among the survivors whom the Lord invites.

So it seems in order to be delivered, one must be on Mount Sion or in Jerusalem...Is that where you'll be?...

Last edited by Richard1965; 09-26-2016 at 06:25 AM..
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:09 AM
 
16,093 posts, read 9,272,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
Arminianism and Calvinism isn't too bad if non believers are annihilated in the end. Eternal torment though is troubling for both views.

Arminianism makes more sense because it means that you can earn your eternal life as opposed to just having it randomly given to you. Universal Salvation would be the most satisfying of them all. The Bible seems to support either Arminianism or Calvinism I'm not sure which. Both? I don't see much evidence from the Bible though of Universalism.
Yep if you cease to exist you will not know it.

Eternal torment is just stupid.

We don't earn our salvation, but we do not get it if all we have is a verbal statement about belief and no real evidence we truly believe. After all if someone told you your house was on fire, and you said you believe them, and then you didn't get out, your declaration of belief would not save you.
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,904,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep if you cease to exist you will not know it.

Eternal torment is just stupid.
To me, both ceasing to exist and eternal torment are stupid. Obviously, if I had to pick between the two, I'd pick ceasing to exist. I'm just glad I don't believe in either of them.
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,744,252 times
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Post Evidence that we truely believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep if you cease to exist you will not know it.

Eternal torment is just stupid.

We don't earn our salvation, but we do not get it if all we have is a verbal statement about belief and no real evidence we truly believe. After all if someone told you your house was on fire, and you said you believe them, and then you didn't get out, your declaration of belief would not save you.
Sooner or later everyone will "give evidence that they truly believe."

An exposition in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation
WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED?
The Salvation of the Unbeliever, by A E Knoch


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Old 09-26-2016, 11:30 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,016,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
I don't see much evidence from the Bible though of Universalism.
Read Rodgertutts links. You might be surprised at what you find. The debate is not as easy as you might think...as demonstrated by all the universalism and universal reconciliation threads on this forum..
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:42 AM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
3,348 posts, read 976,290 times
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one could likely list 100 verses pretty easily that suggest UR
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Old 09-26-2016, 12:01 PM
 
16,093 posts, read 9,272,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
one could likely list 100 verses pretty easily that suggest UR
Yes, but none that teach it.

Word meaning, like eternal/aion is based on historical, immediate and broader context not simply what it can mean.
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