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Old 09-26-2016, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,483 posts, read 31,872,436 times
Reputation: 9408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I believe that this is the one sin which cannot be forgiven and will result in the individual being eternally separated from God.
Ok, so you do believe it after all. Earlier you called the whole idea stupid.
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,267 posts, read 20,872,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Ok, so you do believe it after all. Earlier you called the whole idea stupid.
I just clarified my remark, Finn. I don't believe in a Lake of Fire that billions who picked the "wrong religion" or the "wrong denomination of Christianity" will be consigned to for eternity. I don't believe God is that cruel.
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,483 posts, read 31,872,436 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I just clarified my remark, Finn. I don't believe in a Lake of Fire that billions who picked the "wrong religion" or the "wrong denomination of Christianity" will be consigned to for eternity. I don't believe God is that cruel.
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

You said: "both ceasing to exist and eternal torment are stupid".

But you clarified that very few will have to face it. That view differs from the above Biblical view, but thank you for sharing your view anyway.
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,267 posts, read 20,872,370 times
Reputation: 9950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

You said: "both ceasing to exist and eternal torment are stupid".

But you clarified that very few will have to face it. That view differs from the above Biblical view, but thank you for sharing your view anyway.
It's always such a pleasure to talk to you, Finn.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:48 PM
 
Location: US
26,256 posts, read 13,920,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

Just what is this Gospel that one must obey?....
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:55 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,167 posts, read 19,971,676 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

You said: "both ceasing to exist and eternal torment are stupid".

But you clarified that very few will have to face it. That view differs from the above Biblical view, but thank you for sharing your view anyway.
There is no way you know God believing this, according to your own beliefs i guess eternal torment awaits you.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
Reputation: 245
Post No pardon for the eon

THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN
Instead of being forgiven, the sinner will suffer the consequences.
But the consequences are eonian, not eternal.

I found this link helpful.
The Blasphemy Of The Spirit | Concordant Publishing Concern

The correct literal translation:
Mk 3: 28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the
sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies,
whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be
blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon,
but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin- (Concordant Literal
Translation)

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
Chapter Eleven

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, Dean Hough wrote “The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ.
The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).”
Dean Hough
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
Reputation: 245
Post Godís plan for the ages of time

Having read several books against the Bible teaching universal salvation it is my observation that the authors were unable to believe in God’s plan for the ages of time as revealed in a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible.

THE AGES COLLECTIVELY COME TO AN END WITH EVERYONE SAVED

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
Reputation: 245
Up until the time of Augustine, most Christians believed in universal salvation.

Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: "An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean "endless punishment," then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means "endless life," and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the "eonian chastisement" and "eonian life" are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called "eonian" is past and the life called "eonian" is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: "For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive." Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST."
-- Dr. Edwin Abbott

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:23 PM
 
17,697 posts, read 8,870,974 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Just what is this Gospel that one must obey?....
THE GOSPEL OF ETERNAL PUNISHMENT!!!
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