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Old 03-28-2016, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Christ died for sinners. All sin. Therefore all have been died for.



Let's have a little lookie at your verses referenced above:

Matthew 7:21-23 every one saying to Me 'Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens. (22) Many will be declaring to Me in that day, 'Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds? (23) And then shall I be avowing to them that 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'

First of all, let me say this: Christ does not say "I will never know you." Secondly, the above verse is only in relation to the kingdom of the heavens Christ will be setting up in Israel during the millennial reign. Those people will have to depart out of Israel and live amongst the goat nations. Christ still died for their sins but He did not die so they would not have needful correction.

The next verse you referenced was:

Hebrews 10:26-27 For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins, (27) but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile."

Here is a commentary on the above verse:

[SIZE=2]27 Under the law, one who sinned "presumptuously" (Num 15:30), or, as the Hebrew has it, "with a high hand", was to be cut off from among his people, because he had despised the word of Jehovah and broken His commandment. The man who gathered sticks on the sabbath day was stoned to death (Num 15:32-36). The voluntary sin here referred to is doubtless the repudiation of the truth and apostasy from the faith. The faith of the Hebrews, having been founded on the powers and signs which were given as a token of the near approach of the kingdom, was sorely tried when these signs ceased and the kingdom did not come. But those who drew back could not do so without reproaching God and trampling on the Son of God and inviting the fiery jealousy of Jehovah. For such there is no sin offering, since they refuse the only Sacrifice that is of any avail. They are calling down the vengeance of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]How great is the contrast between these Hebrews and those who came under the ministry of Paul! Their faith did not fail for lack of evidence, because it was never founded on it (2Cor 5:7). They come so completely under the dominion of grace, that persistence in sin would only increase the outflowing of favor (Rom 6:1). We are beyond the sphere of condemnation (Rom 8:1). The Hebrews were never introduced into such grace as this, for their destiny is the kingdom.[/SIZE]

And in Unsearchable Riches magazine it is written concerning this verse:

"No More Sacrifice for Sins"

Christ's sacrifice will never be repeated. Those who reject it will receive "judgment and fiery indignation" (Heb.10:26-31[7][8][10}). They fall into the hands of the living God. But there is no indication that their judgment will be endless. Like millions more, they will be disciplined. The same God Who wrote Hebrews, and has told us of their offense, also wrote Timothy, and tells us of their subsequent salvation.



You can listen to the twisted words of men or believe Jesus who taught---Those many walking the broad and spacious path to= destruction. And just as those who enter the narrow gate=Few-- who find the road to life--both ends are eternal.


Yes Jesus did die for all, but it only opened the door to them--There are many requirements on the mortals part.
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Post The narrow gate

THE NARROW GATE
The language is entirely confined to the present.
"Lord, are there few that be 'saved'?" The literal rendering is: "Are those being saved few?" The question relates entirely to the number then, at that time that were entering the narrow door and accepting Christ.

But we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Default Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it

SEQUENTIAL LOGIC
Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it.

It is true that there are things that God cannot do.
For example, God cannot lie. But He doesn’t want to lie.
But He DOES want to save ALL mankind.

SEQUENTIAL LOGIC - Kenneth Larsen
Can God do anything He wishes? Yes. “All that Yahweh delights He does,
In the heavens and on earth, In the seas and every abyss” Ps. 135:6.
See Matt. 19:25, 26.
Does God wish all to be saved? Yes. “Who will have all men to be saved
and to come to the knowledge of the truth” 1 Tim. 2:4. See Acts 4:12.
Therefore, it is apparent that God is able to save what was lost, and
since He desires to save all that was lost, He has promised to do just
that. Phil. 2:9-11; Col. 1:20; 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

Faith in God’s promises,
And an acquaintance with His character and power,
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
God is Love: God Is Love! *The Power of God's Love;*Love Your Enemies! Knowing The Real Jesus
https://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html
and sequential logic,
and THE HISTORY OF THE EARLY CHURCH
Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
all support universal reconciliation.
Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it.
THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment

Last edited by rodgertutt; 03-28-2016 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Post Death and destruction are not eternal

John 3:16
DEATH AND DESTRUCTION ARE NOT ETERNAL
Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind!!!
Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both ARE completely true.
We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth) right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example. This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.
To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.
If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived inherited ideas."
Kenneth Larsen
"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?" What Does it Mean to "Perish?"

Last edited by rodgertutt; 03-28-2016 at 03:59 PM..
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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ELECTION
Eventually everyone will be saved.
Because men have failed to see and understand the doctrine of election, it has propagated false ideas of salvation. Many seek to limit it to believers, but they overlook the significance of the double statement.

"In 1Tim. 4:9-11 we are told that the living God `is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of those who believe,' and with this 1Tim. 2: 4-6 concurs. Many seek to limit it to believers, but they overlook the significance of the double statement. That there is a special salvation for believers is plainly stated, but this does not limit the other part of the statement, rather does it emphasize it. The salvation of believers is a special work; they are a special class in the `all mankind.' God's will for mankind is salvation, not as an experimental salvation toying with the will and choice of men, but as their Disposer – God.
My dear brethren, let us embrace this glorious truth which God has revealed for us. Let it so become a part of us that our lives will be reflecting it. Let it fill our hearts with the love of God and His glorious Son. Let us be rendering praise to the living God, the universal Creator and Reconciler, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
`To Him be glory for the eons! Amen!' " - E.G.Jones

REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS - J. Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/allinall.html

At the present time salvation is enjoyed only by those who believe; the balance of mankind will be saved at the consummation. A savior is one who actually saves. God is the savior of all mankind, not just the ‘potential’ savior. When the truth concerning the eons displaces the error about eternity, judgment and grace are seen to work harmoniously together till each reaches its predestined goal. All the threats of punishment to follow the judgment of the wicked can be accepted at their full, dreadful value without doing violence to our innate sense of justice, and without denying the predictions of a final victory of grace.
Don Bast

Having read several books against the Bible teaching universal salvation it is my observation that the authors simply could not accept God’s plan for the ages of time as revealed in a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible.
THE AGES COLLECTIVELY COME TO AN END WITH EVERYONE SAVED

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
Chapter Eleven

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
AIN -- AINIOS

Dean Hough wrote “The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ.
The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).”
Dean Hough
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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RAYMOND VAN DYKE
Mr. Ray A. Van Dyke, compiled a comparison between the revelation given in Revelation and that given to Paul, as recorded in 1 Cor. 15:22-28. His comments are reproduced here:
“In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20:21-22:

In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
• No more rule
• No more authority
• No more power
• No more enemies
• No more reigning
• All subjected
• No more death, death destroyed.
• All made alive, immortal

In Revelation 20:21-22, we have:
• Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
• Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
• Authority (21:24,25)
• Power (21:24,25; 22:2
• Kings (21:24-26)
• Saints reign (22:5)
• Second death still exists (21:5)
• The nations still mortal (22:2)

Christians who believe in universal reconciliation believe that the Bible is God’s Word, and His Word cannot contradict itself, hence the inspired sacred Scriptures say in Rev. 11:15; 22:5, eis tous aionas ton aionon, “for the eons of the eons.” Thus, Christ our Lord “reigns for the eons of the eons,” not as the king’s translators rendered, “forever and ever.” Therefore, Revelation 20:21, 22 fits into the framework of the eons, and is truth relative to the eons. First Corinthians Chapter 15 fits at the consummation (end) of the eons. We give the second Adam, Christ, as much credit and numerical ability as the first Adam, and use 1 Cor. 15:22-28 also for this truth. (Read Rom. 5:18-19.)
An Analytical Study of Words | Love Wins Because God Is Love…
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:45 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
RAYMOND VAN DYKE
Mr. Ray A. Van Dyke, compiled a comparison between the revelation given in Revelation and that given to Paul, as recorded in 1 Cor. 15:22-28. His comments are reproduced here:
“In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20:21-22:

In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
• No more rule
• No more authority
• No more power
• No more enemies
• No more reigning
• All subjected
• No more death, death destroyed.
• All made alive, immortal

In Revelation 20:21-22, we have:
• Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
• Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
• Authority (21:24,25)
• Power (21:24,25; 22:2
• Kings (21:24-26)
• Saints reign (22:5)
• Second death still exists (21:5)
• The nations still mortal (22:2)

Christians who believe in universal reconciliation believe that the Bible is God’s Word, and His Word cannot contradict itself, hence the inspired sacred Scriptures say in Rev. 11:15; 22:5, eis tous aionas ton aionon, “for the eons of the eons.” Thus, Christ our Lord “reigns for the eons of the eons,” not as the king’s translators rendered, “forever and ever.” Therefore, Revelation 20:21, 22 fits into the framework of the eons, and is truth relative to the eons. First Corinthians Chapter 15 fits at the consummation (end) of the eons. We give the second Adam, Christ, as much credit and numerical ability as the first Adam, and use 1 Cor. 15:22-28 also for this truth. (Read Rom. 5:18-19.)
An Analytical Study of Words | Love Wins Because God Is Love…
Thanks for the post. Well do I remember Ray Van Dyke and his wife and kids. He was at a Bible conference and a man came up to him and told him his house just burned to the ground. He response? My wife is okay? She was. He was relieved. And that was all there was to it. Ray attended Moody Bible Institute prior to his coming into the truth that God will save all mankind.

Another minister I knew who, prior to becoming a minister worked for Al Capone. He was part of the gang. He and a friend went to a tent meeting to make fun of the evangelist. Instead he got saved. Capone let him go. He too went to Moody and later came into the truth of God saving all. Ray and he knew each other and ministered together but at different churches. Both men are now deceased.
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
You can listen to the twisted words of men or believe Jesus who taught---Those many walking the broad and spacious path to= destruction. And just as those who enter the narrow gate=Few-- who find the road to life--both ends are eternal.
But I do believe Jesus. The narrow way and gate He spoke of was the law. Very few were saved through the law. But Jesus never said they would be lost eternally so please don't put words in Jesus' mouth which He never said.

Quote:
Yes Jesus did die for all, but it only opened the door to them--There are many requirements on the mortals part.
That's interesting, the Bible doesn't state that Christ's death only made salvation a possibility.

And Paul used Abraham in Romans chapter 4 concerning faith and God reckoning righteousness to him BEFORE he did anything. He only believed God. And another interesting point is that God didn't even require faith from Abraham. But Abraham just believed God and God reckoned to him righteousness. Then Paul says this:

Romans 4:23-25 Now it was not written because of him only, that it is reckoned to him, (24) but
because of us also, to whom it is about to be reckoned, who are believing on Him Who rouses Jesus our
Lord from among the dead." (25) Who was given up because of our offenses, and was roused because of
our justifying."

So righteousness is reckoned to the one who is ONLY believing God that Christ died for our offenses/sins, was entombed and roused from the dead. (see also 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

And the same Jesus who said that about the narrow way also told Paul later, after His ascension, that God will save all mankind. So you can listen to the twisted words of men or believe Jesus.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Default Full restoration

RESTORATION: THROUGH THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES – CHARLES WELLER
“The feast of tabernacles means the feast of ingathering. It takes an eight day period to bring in the fullness of the ingathering. Eight is the number of new beginnings in scripture or FULL RESTORATION.
1Corinthians 15 is the last chapter in the Bible. The fifteenth chapter clearly shows how great the totality of the feast of tabernacles will be. ‘As in Adam all die (every preacher will agree that all people are in Adam but few believe that the word all mean all in the second part of the verse) so in Christ all shall be made alive.’ Jesus is going to gather all together in Himself. He will have everyone in His nature.
Everything that occurs, occurs in the plan and order of God. In 1Corinthians 15 God shows that there are different orders. The highest order is Jesus Christ. Everything will, in time, be brought into Jesus Christ. All shall be gathered into Him. When this is done then Jesus, the Son, will turn all over to the Father. It is then we find that time ends, for God becomes All in all (verse 28).
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