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Old 09-27-2016, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
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An exposition in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation
THE SALVATION OF THE UNBELIEVER
The Salvation of the Unbeliever, by A E Knoch
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:24 AM
 
17,697 posts, read 8,870,974 times
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You really have no idea, do you?....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, he does not, but that won't stop him, or mystic or pcamps from distorting the views of other people, or from proclaiming who knows God and who does not.
Eternal torment does not equate to that of having a sound mind, or that of knowing him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Accepting the invitation, the free gift of salvation, is the first thing to do in "obeying the Gospel".
Everything else follows from there, including the desire to follow it in other ways.
And it has nothing to do with an invitation, nor the wicked desires of one's own heart.
But you go "right-on" believing in your pain and suffering theologies invented by mankind.


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Old 09-27-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
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Post Knowing the real jesus

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Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Eternal torment does not equate to that of having a sound mind, or that of knowing him. And it has nothing to do with an invitation, nor the wicked desires of one's own heart.
But you go "right-on" believing in your pain and suffering theologies invented by mankind.
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
http://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html








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Old 09-27-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
3,348 posts, read 974,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
But you go "right-on" believing in your pain and suffering theologies invented by mankind.
therein lies all the pain and suffering imo.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,483 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Eternal torment does not equate to that of having a sound mind, or that of knowing him.

And it has nothing to do with an invitation, nor the wicked desires of one's own heart.
But you go "right-on" believing in your pain and suffering theologies invented by mankind.
Where you see pain and suffering, I see love and mercy.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
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Default It is absurd to say that Jesus would not be doing it !!!

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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Where you see pain and suffering, I see love and mercy.

It is absurd to say that Jesus would not be doing it !!!
https://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:46 AM
 
Location: US
26,256 posts, read 13,920,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Where you see pain and suffering, I see love and mercy.
It seems that you don't understand that G-d has told use what He expects from us and that expectation is in the Torah, 248 negative Mitzvot and 365 positive Mitzvot...Since G-d's Torah is Righteousness and your own St. Paul instructs you to practice Righteousness, then you must ask yourself, "what is Righteousness and how to I practice it?"...King David said that G-d's Torah is Righteousness...We are born with a Yetzer HaRa (had inclination) and a Yetzer HaTov (good inclination), with that we are given free will to follow one or the other...The more we follow the Yetzer HaRa, the worse a Mensch (human being) we become to the effect that the Yetzer HaTov has little to no influence on us and we become reprobate, but the more we follow (practice) the Yetzer HaTov, the better Mensch we will become to the effect that the Yetzer HaRa has little to no influence on us...You choose daily which one you follow...You choose daily wether to practice Righteousness or Un-righteousness...There is a Native American story that this reminds me of, two wolves are within you, one black, the other white, one is bad and one is good, they are always fighting with one another...Which one will win?...The stronger of the two will win...But, which one is that?...The stronger one is the one you feed the most...I may have that screwed up a bit, but you get the gist...Maybe Ptsum, our resident Native American, can correct me if I am wrong...
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:56 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,014,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Where you see pain and suffering, I see love and mercy.
This is a little off from the last point but it brought something to my mind and I'm just curious how you would respond: Would you say that the rulers throughout history who created or endorsed the most hideous and painful tortures of all time were being loving and merciful or something else? Considering the traditionalist view of hell makes these tortures look like a theme park ride by comparison, would you consider this to be loving and merciful or something else? You may not even believe in a hell quite like that but I'm just curious on how you would view it since I make a similar argument a lot and usually don't get much response here.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,483 posts, read 31,872,436 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It seems that you don't understand that G-d has told use what He expects from us and that expectation is in the Torah, 248 negative Mitzvot and 365 positive Mitzvot...Since G-d's Torah is Righteousness and your own St. Paul instructs you to practice Righteousness, then you must ask yourself, "what is Righteousness and how to I practice it?"...King David said that G-d's Torah is Righteousness...We are born with a Yetzer HaRa (had inclination) and a Yetzer HaTov (good inclination), with that we are given free will to follow one or the other...The more we follow the Yetzer HaRa, the worse a Mensch (human being) we become to the effect that the Yetzer HaTov has little to no influence on us and we become reprobate, but the more we follow (practice) the Yetzer HaTov, the better Mensch we will become to the effect that the Yetzer HaRa has little to no influence on us...You choose daily which one you follow...You choose daily wether to practice Righteousness or Un-righteousness...There is a Native American story that this reminds me of, two wolves are within you, one black, the other white, one is bad and one is good, they are always fighting with one another...Which one will win?...The stronger of the two will win...But, which one is that?...The stronger one is the one you feed the most...I may have that screwed up a bit, but you get the gist...Maybe Ptsum, our resident Native American, can correct me if I am wrong...
I said accepting the invitation, the free gift of salvation, is the first thing to do in "obeying the Gospel". Everything else follows from there, including the desire to follow it in other ways. Having the desire to choose righteousness is not a bad thing.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:00 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,014,777 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You choose daily which one you follow...You choose daily wether to practice Righteousness or Un-righteousness...There is a Native American story that this reminds me of, two wolves are within you, one black, the other white, one is bad and one is good, they are always fighting with one another...Which one will win?...The stronger of the two will win...But, which one is that?...The stronger one is the one you feed the most...I may have that screwed up a bit, but you get the gist...Maybe Ptsum, our resident Native American, can correct me if I am wrong...
I like that analogy. Found it online here and its a little more complex it looks like: https://sunnashines.wordpress.com/20...he-black-wolf/
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