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Old 09-27-2016, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Il
386 posts, read 213,446 times
Reputation: 112

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I said accepting the invitation, the free gift of salvation, is the first thing to do in "obeying the Gospel". Everything else follows from there, including the desire to follow it in other ways. Having the desire to choose righteousness is not a bad thing.

Are you saying that accepting the gift of salvation produces the desire to do God's will? Or stated in another way, there can be no desire to do God's will until you have accepted the gift of salvation. Humans are incapable of desiring God's will on their own?
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,679 times
Reputation: 245
Post THE PURPOSE OF EVIL - A.P. Adams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
This is a little off from the last point but it brought something to my mind and I'm just curious how you would respond: Would you say that the rulers throughout history who created or endorsed the most hideous and painful tortures of all time were being loving and merciful or something else? Considering the traditionalist view of hell makes these tortures look like a theme park ride by comparison, would you consider this to be loving and merciful or something else? You may not even believe in a hell quite like that but I'm just curious on how you would view it since I make a similar argument a lot and usually don't get much response here.

THE PURPOSE OF EVIL A.P. Adams
evil.html
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
Are you saying that accepting the gift of salvation produces the desire to do God's will? Or stated in another way, there can be no desire to do God's will until you have accepted the gift of salvation. Humans are incapable of desiring God's will on their own?
The words were "obeying the Gospel". Can you obey something you reject?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" - Heb 11:6

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 09-27-2016 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Il
386 posts, read 213,446 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The words were "obeying the Gospel". Can you obey something you reject?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" - Heb 11:6
My intent wasn't to criticize what you wrote, just to request clarification if that's what you were saying.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
My intent wasn't to criticize what you wrote, just to request clarification if that's what you were saying.
I was not trying to criticize you either. My answer was that you cannot obey something you reject.
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:03 PM
 
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
3,348 posts, read 973,416 times
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28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’

29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:17 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,966,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
His Father sent him to the lost sheep of Israel...Period...
Even the dogs get the crumbs that fall from the Master's table...(Matt 15:27)
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:10 PM
 
1,501 posts, read 647,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
Are you saying that accepting the gift of salvation produces the desire to do God's will? Or stated in another way, there can be no desire to do God's will until you have accepted the gift of salvation. Humans are incapable of desiring God's will on their own?
Yes, it's called total depravity. Even accepting Jesus Christ is not done by flesh and blood, not sheerly by our own will-power. No man can come to Me, unless the Father draws him. (John 6:44 and vs 65) Yet Gods Sovereignty doesn't eliminate our responsibility to believe.

When Peter said that they believed He was the Christ, the Son of the Living God it was really their personal faith. Yet Christ replied not by commending him (or them) for his faith, but by reminding Peter that he is blessed because flesh and blood didn't reveal this to him but His Father that is in heaven. (Matthew 16:16-17) We need a revelation from God which we can't conjure up ourselves, we need to be born again from above. And no we won't be able to play the victim part on judgment day, because we are fully responsible for our sin and unbelieving, unrepentant hearts aswell.

These verses clearly describes humanity's utter incapacity but especially unwillingness by nature of desiring Gods will (also see Isaiah 64:6). Fitting verses for this forum aswell:

Psalm 14:1-3 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.} The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:28 PM
 
37,494 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanokh View Post
Yes, it's called total depravity. Even accepting Jesus Christ is not done by flesh and blood, not sheerly by our own will-power. No man can come to Me, unless the Father draws him. (John 6:44 and vs 65) Yet Gods Sovereignty doesn't eliminate our responsibility to believe.
<Snip>
These verses clearly describes humanity's utter incapacity but especially unwillingness by nature of desiring Gods will (also see Isaiah 64:6). Fitting verses for this forum aswell:
Wrong. They refer to our unwillingness, NOT our inability. We have the ability, but not all follow the Comforter sent in Christ's name to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love. Describing what our ancestors have DONE or NOT DONE in no way means we do not have the capacity or ability! Jesus would have come in vain if we did not have the ability to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't.
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:43 PM
 
17,691 posts, read 8,866,529 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanokh View Post
Yes, it's called total depravity. Even accepting Jesus Christ is not done by flesh and blood, not sheerly by our own will-power. No man can come to Me, unless the Father draws him. (John 6:44 and vs 65) Yet Gods Sovereignty doesn't eliminate our responsibility to believe.

When Peter said that they believed He was the Christ, the Son of the Living God it was really their personal faith. Yet Christ replied not by commending him (or them) for his faith, but by reminding Peter that he is blessed because flesh and blood didn't reveal this to him but His Father that is in heaven. (Matthew 16:16-17) We need a revelation from God which we can't conjure up ourselves, we need to be born again from above. And no we won't be able to play the victim part on judgment day, because we are fully responsible for our sin and unbelieving, unrepentant hearts aswell.

These verses clearly describes humanity's utter incapacity but especially unwillingness by nature of desiring Gods will (also see Isaiah 64:6). Fitting verses for this forum aswell:

Psalm 14:1-3 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.} The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
And Jesus answering said: A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance there came down a certain priest that way; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite - when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

However,
a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion on him. And went to him, and bound up his wounds, setting him on his own beast; and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
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