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Old 09-28-2016, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,119,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Remember, I am not the one who believes in eternal torment.
Then it sure is strange you can't stop talking about it.

I mentioned the love and mercy of Christ, and the first and only thing that came to your mind was pain and suffering.
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:53 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,336 posts, read 20,076,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Then it sure is strange you can't stop talking about it.

I mentioned the love and mercy of Christ, and the first and only thing that came to your mind was pain and suffering.
I find it hard to understand believing in eternal hell and believing folk deserve to go there for not believing what you believe, that being loving and merciful is a strong point of yours and the god you believe in.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:32 AM
 
18,016 posts, read 8,964,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Love and mercy is having compassion in spite of what others do.
Remember, I am not the one who believes in eternal torment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I mentioned the love and mercy of Christ, and the first and only thing that came to your mind was pain and suffering.
That would be your understanding of those who do not believe what you do - not mine.
Then, you twist things to make it appear otherwise without taking any responsibility.
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,119,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
That would be your understanding of those who do not believe what you do - not mine. Then, you twist things to make it appear otherwise without taking any responsibility.
I know what my understanding is, so there is no need for you to speculate about it, and then pass it as fact.

You keep talking about pain and suffering, not me.

"for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh"
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:43 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,019,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I know what my understanding is, so there is no need for you to speculate about it, and then pass it as fact.

You keep talking about pain and suffering, not me.

"for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh"
Yeah Jerwade! Pay no attention that pesky Eternal Torment Elephant behind the curtain in the Loving and Merciful Room. Finn, be sure to tell the next suicide bomber you meet just how much you plan on focusing on the happier aspects of their faith.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:45 AM
 
18,016 posts, read 8,964,135 times
Reputation: 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I know what my understanding is, so there is no need for you to speculate about it, and then pass it as fact.
You keep talking about pain and suffering, not me. "for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh"
Do you, or do you not - believe in Eternal torment/punishment for those who do not believe in Christ?
And are you not a member of the Penal Substitution crowd who believes he suffered in your place?


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Old 09-28-2016, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,119,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Do you, or do you not - believe in Eternal torment/punishment for those who do not believe in Christ?
And are you not a member of the Penal Substitution crowd who believes he suffered in your place?
Yes, Jesus died in our place, and as the Bible teaches there is no greater love than to lay down your own life for others. It was done out of love. Feel free to disagree.

As for you trying to define my beliefs, your claim was that I believe people go to "eternal torment" if they don't believe what I believe.

Whatever that even means, it is your claim, and it is for you to prove, not me. The floor is yours.

Since I never said that, I know you won't be able to prove it (which is nothing new), I suggest you go back few pages and read what I actually said about it.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:08 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,336 posts, read 20,076,279 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, Jesus died in our place, and as the Bible teaches there is no greater love than to lay down your own life for others. It was done out of love. Feel free to disagree.

As for you trying to define my beliefs, your claim was that I believe people go to "eternal torment" if they don't believe what I believe.

Whatever that even means, it is your claim, and it is for you to prove, not me. The floor is yours.

Since I never said that, I know you won't be able to prove it (which is nothing new), I suggest you go back few pages and read what I actually said about it.
Why can't you be open about your what you believe about eternal torment ? No need to be vague like the 2 running to be the next president of the United States
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Il
386 posts, read 216,540 times
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I don't like the idea of eternal conscious torment nor am I 100% convinced that the Bible is saying that the unsaved will be tormented or even exist for eternity. But I have come to one possible idea as to why or with what justification God would allow eternal conscious torment.


The argument goes that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I think that's a good argument. But in our limited human capacity to understand all things, could we be wrong?


Maybe the way God sees it is that if a person was allowed to live on this earth for eternity, the person would commit an infinite and increasingly detestable number of sins and due to that God imposes an infinite punishment on the person.


The one problem I find with this argument is that I think most people, if given the option would have rather never been born than choose to suffer eternal torment, but it doesn't seem like that was ever an option.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,119,559 times
Reputation: 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
I don't like the idea of eternal conscious torment nor am I 100% convinced that the Bible is saying that the unsaved will be tormented or even exist for eternity. But I have come to one possible idea as to why or with what justification God would allow eternal conscious torment.
And I don't like the idea that we will one day die a potentially very painful physical death, but that won't make it go away. We will die. My opinion, which I already expressed earlier in this thread, is that those who reject God will be eternally separated (shut out) from the presence of God. This is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, but no one knows the exact nature of this separation, so why speculate? God has invited us to be in His presence, so it is up to you.

I see some posters invent their own version like "Jesus will torture people in fire", and then try to insert that version in the mounts of others, but such behavior says more about them than anyone else.
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