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Old 09-28-2016, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Il
386 posts, read 215,623 times
Reputation: 112

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And I don't like the idea that we will one day die a potentially very painful physical death, but that won't make it go away. We will die. My opinion, which I already expressed earlier in this thread, is that those who reject God will be eternally separated (shut out) from the presence of God. This is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, but no one knows the exact nature of this separation, so why speculate? God has invited us to be in His presence, so it is up to you.

I see some posters invent their own version like "Jesus will torture people in fire", and then try to insert that version in the mounts of others, but such behavior says more about them than anyone else.
I agree that many are just mocking Christianity. But I can't deny that I identify with people in thinking that eternal conscious torment is unjustified and I also think that there is enough ambiguity in the Bible to think that annihilation is a possibility. I leave the idea of eternal conscious torment as a possibility as well.
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:40 PM
 
17,925 posts, read 8,938,676 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Do you, or do you not - believe in Eternal torment/punishment for those who do not believe in Christ?
And are you not a member of the Penal Substitution crowd who believes he suffered in your place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, Jesus died in our place, and as the Bible teaches there is no greater love than to lay down your own life for others. It was done out of love. Feel free to disagree.
A person may lay their life down for various reasons; and love is one of them.
Quote:
As for you trying to define my beliefs, your claim was that I believe people go to "eternal torment" if they don't believe what I believe. Whatever that even means, it is your claim, and it is for you to prove, not me. The floor is yours.
I am not trying to define anything for you, merely seeking clarification.
But you can maintain that avoidance tactic, if it makes you feel better.



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Old 09-28-2016, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 32,015,814 times
Reputation: 9428
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
I agree that many are just mocking Christianity. But I can't deny that I identify with people in thinking that eternal conscious torment is unjustified and I also think that there is enough ambiguity in the Bible to think that annihilation is a possibility. I leave the idea of eternal conscious torment as a possibility as well.
Like I said, no one knows, so we'll just have to wait and see. In the other hand, the Bible is abundantly clear about God inviting us to spend eternity in His presence.

Eternal torment, eternal separation, and shut-out from His presence all refer to the same thing, and no one knows the exact nature of it.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 09-28-2016 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Il
386 posts, read 215,623 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Like I said, no one knows, so we'll just have to wait and see. In the other hand, the Bible is abundantly clear about God inviting us to spend eternity in His presence.
Agreed
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:05 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,045,872 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Like I said, no one knows, so we'll just have to wait and see. In the other hand, the Bible is abundantly clear about God inviting us to spend eternity in His presence.
No one knows? Could you clarify what it is you believe you are saved from, most if not all evangelical bible believers like yourself believe for certain that it is from eternal torment/separation from God that you are saved from.
Actually wait a minute no clarification is needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

You said: "both ceasing to exist and eternal torment are stupid".

But you clarified that very few will have to face it. That view differs from the above Biblical view, but thank you for sharing your view anyway.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:11 PM
 
17,925 posts, read 8,938,676 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Like I said, no one knows, so we'll just have to wait and see. In the other hand, the Bible is abundantly clear about God inviting us to spend eternity in His presence.
Western culture requires that you receive a written invitation, and don't forget to RSVP.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:16 PM
 
17,925 posts, read 8,938,676 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eternal separation = eternal torment. "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

You said: "both ceasing to exist and eternal torment are stupid".

But you clarified that very few will have to face it. That view differs from the above Biblical view, but thank you for sharing your view anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
It's always such a pleasure to talk to you, Finn.
Yes, it is!

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Old 09-28-2016, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 32,015,814 times
Reputation: 9428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Western culture requires that you receive a written invitation, and don't forget to RSVP.
Ehhh......ok.....if you say so.

It's funny how you and the usual suspects went right back to playing the game of demanding answers to questions which were already answered. It never ends.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:53 PM
 
Location: US
26,391 posts, read 14,001,542 times
Reputation: 1602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Ehhh......ok.....if you say so.

It's funny how you and the usual suspects went right back to playing the game of demanding answers to questions which were already answered. It never ends.
Prove your theory regarding Jesus from this - Genesis - Chapter 1 (Parshah Berei****) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 32,015,814 times
Reputation: 9428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Prove my theory about Jesus from your link? LOL
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