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Old 01-27-2017, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,568 posts, read 7,023,234 times
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You really don't pay any attention to what people actually say do you? You just spout your fantasies of what you think people must mean when they don't buy into your barbaric notions of "justice" as vengeance.
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Old 01-27-2017, 06:45 AM
 
373 posts, read 311,026 times
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Sound like a ultra liberal ideas were the offence of the cross of Jesus and its judgement for salvation is gone and then we are left with a God who is ultra loving God who has all love and no justice, where God will live forever with people who probably hate him ....... I not convinced

Psalm 18:26 To the pure you show yourself pure, but to the wicked you show yourself hostile.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:17 AM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,562,753 times
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Sound like a ultra liberal ideas were the offence of the cross of Jesus and its judgement for salvation is gone and then we are left with a God who is ultra loving God who has all love and no justice, where God will live forever with people who probably hate him ....... I not convinced
I had some of these same thoughts when I first began looking into Christian Universalism in order to refute it. I eventually came to the understanding that my perceptions (especially about justice and judgment) were way off the mark. If you take the time to study it, you may come to the same conclusion. It's easy to declare something as unconvincing if you aren't willing to temporarily set aside the lens you currently look through (your specific set of beliefs, dogma, doctrines), and study it from a different perspective. That can be a difficult and time-consuming (and often rather upsetting) thing to do. I found it was worth it, to say the least.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,568 posts, read 7,023,234 times
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I had some of these same thoughts when I first began looking into Christian Universalism in order to refute it. I eventually came to the understanding that my perceptions (especially about justice and judgment) were way off the mark. If you take the time to study it, you may come to the same conclusion. It's easy to declare something as unconvincing if you aren't willing to temporarily set aside the lens you currently look through (your specific set of beliefs, dogma, doctrines), and study it from a different perspective. That can be a difficult and time-consuming (and often rather upsetting) thing to do. I found it was worth it, to say the least.
That might actually require understanding WHAT those people say instead of just using fantasies about what they MUST be saying....


Good luck with THAT.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:47 AM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,562,753 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
That might actually require understanding WHAT those people say instead of just using fantasies about what they MUST be saying....


Good luck with THAT.
That was my point. I had to take the time and effort to actually understand what they were saying and why, which required me setting aside my preconceived notions about what they were saying and why. It was not an easy thing to do, and I assume that's why many people don't do it. But at the time I began to study it, I was convinced that UR was a dangerous doctrine, and I was determined to fight it and I had that quote in mind about "know your enemy".... Surprise! I found out I and my cherished doctrines were the adversary!
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:01 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,792,733 times
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One day over a decade or so, He said to me, "There were 2 trees in the midst of the garden." I already had been shown the 2 trees were in the midst of the Tabernacle design as well, in the inner court. But when He said that to me, what He hit me with in understanding at the same time, was that if the inner court is the midst of His garden, THEN THE WHOLE GARDEN IS HIS, not just the midst. It was quite a shock, even more so when I found that there were others who had been shown Christian Universalism. So I had a lot of studying to do, to reconcile this, and reconcile it I did. Peace
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,568 posts, read 7,023,234 times
Reputation: 1607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
That was my point. I had to take the time and effort to actually understand what they were saying and why, which required me setting aside my preconceived notions about what they were saying and why. It was not an easy thing to do, and I assume that's why many people don't do it. But at the time I began to study it, I was convinced that UR was a dangerous doctrine, and I was determined to fight it and I had that quote in mind about "know your enemy".... Surprise! I found out I and my cherished doctrines were the adversary!
I had noticed that was your point and I wonder why people seem to be afraid to actually see what universalists are saying about God's justice instead of what they seem to have to believe they are saying.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:10 AM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,562,753 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
I had noticed that was your point
Thanks Nate. Thought perhaps I'd muddled it.

Quote:
and I wonder why people seem to be afraid to actually see what universalists are saying about God's justice instead of what they seem to have to believe they are saying.
In my case at least, the fear came when I began studying UR and realizing it made more sense (biblically and in every other way) than what I was currently believing. It felt like if that one doctrine (ET) was taken from me, my whole world (all the other doctrines I believed) was in danger of coming crashing down. I don't know if someone like yourself, whose foundation has always been God and love rather than doctrines/beliefs, can understand what a fearful prospect that is.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:19 AM
 
10,525 posts, read 4,157,425 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
You really don't pay any attention to what people actually say do you? You just spout your fantasies of what you think people must mean when they don't buy into your barbaric notions of "justice" as vengeance.
err, where did i misunderstand?
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:24 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,792,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post

In my case at least, the fear came when I began studying UR and realizing it made more sense (biblically and in every other way) than what I was currently believing. It felt like if that one doctrine (ET) was taken from me, my whole world (all the other doctrines I believed) was in danger of coming crashing down. I don't know if someone like yourself, whose foundation has always been God and love rather than doctrines/beliefs, can understand what a fearful prospect that is.

I understand. Been there, done that. Peace
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