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Old 03-20-2016, 01:43 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,020,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Hold on there.
First, we do Not know who has committed the unforgivable sin - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6
Second, we do Not know exactly who are the ones called to heaven - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; Luke 22:28-29; Daniel 7:18,22,27
Third, most people are called, so to speak, to live forever on earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:11,29
Forth, the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:11,14-15; Jeremiah 25:31-33

So, except for those committing the unforgivable sin Romans 6:7 applies: The one who has died is freed or acquitted from sin. Not meaning they are now innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick. So, how a person acts or behaves ' after ' they are resurrected back to life on earth can determine if they will gain everlasting life on earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Under Christ's millennium-long day of governing over earth there will be healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
I don't believe scripture means a physical resurrection to earth. When a persons physical body dies, they then live in the spiritual realm, and that's it. The meaning of earth therefore has to have a symbolic context, eg. Carnal nature, materialism, etc. Once we leave this life, we have to leave materialism behind.

Its also the same with Jesus reign in the millennium, which we are on the brink of - Jesus is in the spiritual realm and stays in it. His reign on earth will be through the manifest sons of God, who will woo the bride into union with the Head.

 
Old 03-20-2016, 02:53 AM
 
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God is a God of justice , and evil hates God and God has no mercy or salvation for evil , as the cross of Christ came from all men and women who ignore God and His obedience of His commands for salvation , by the sacrifice of Jesus who God judges all men and women through out time for killing Jesus ..................................To God all have sinned and by this have put Jesus on the cross and killed him ..............So God demands that people turn from sin and surrender to Jesus and receive His spirit of their lives to be redeemed of this judgment for all who has sinned , then to be saved to Christ by repentance and surrender .................See Jesus is God and Father God will never forsake himself which is Jesus and not judge the lost to God , which is the fleeting hope of Universal salvation ideas
 
Old 03-20-2016, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,390,561 times
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Post God’s plan for the ages of time

RESPONSES TO SUPPOSED SCRIPTURE ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION
“Passages of Scripture Sometimes Quoted to Prove Endless Punishment
Shown to Teach Consequences of Limited Duration, showing that Christian universalism, or ultimate reconciliation is the true Biblical doctrine.”
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained

THE SCHOLARS CORNER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSAL SALVATION
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
While believers are enjoying life eonian, unbelievers will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

A snippet from
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
 
Old 03-20-2016, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,390,561 times
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Up until the time of Augustine, most Christians believed in universal salvation.
Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: "An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean "endless punishment," then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means "endless life," and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the "eonian chastisement" and "eonian life" are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called "eonian" is past and the life called "eonian" is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: "For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive." Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST."
Dr. Edwin Abbott

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
 
Old 03-20-2016, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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A fun read that might give some idea is Inferno by Pournelle and Niven. It's not theology, just a great science fiction book that examines some of the aspects of what is said here.
 
Old 03-21-2016, 09:39 AM
 
Location: USA
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All of this need for "salvation" assumes that death is some kind of terrible punishment that we must be "saved" from.

But is death some kind of terrible punishment? Without death, we would have a massive overpopulation problem.

Think about it.
 
Old 03-21-2016, 09:58 AM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,891,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
"But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” - Jesus



Jesus taught truth on the matter--there is no need for the contradictory words of men. Jesus taught


Enter through the narrow gate, for cramped is the road that leads off into life( everlasting) FEW will find it, For many have entered the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction( everlasting)
 
Old 03-21-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,390,561 times
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“But what about Judas Iscariot? Doesn’t it say it would have been better if he’d never been born?
Matthew 26:24 “The Son of Mankind is indeed going away, according as it is written concerning Him, yet woe to that man through whom the Son of Mankind is being given up! Ideal were it for Him if that man were not born!” It would have been ideal (pleasing and peaceful) for Jesus (the Son of Mankind/Him) if Judas (that man) had not been born. It was nevertheless necessary for him to be born and commit his sin of betrayal in order for scripture to be fulfilled. See Genesis 6:6; John 18:11; Matt. 26:39
Concerning Judas’ title, “son of destruction”, John 17:12, the Greek word is apollumi, often translated, perish or lose. This word is used in the New Testament about 90 times. Many people, animals, and even things are described as being “lost”, “destroyed” or “perished”. It is unwise to assume the word describes “eternal damnation”. “For the Son of Mankind came to seek and to save the lost (apollumi).” Luke 19:10. The book All in All, by A. E. Knoch, is very informative on this and some other important topics, such as the eons, the 3 classes of vivification, “hell”, and “annihilation”. Lighthouse Library International - ALL IN ALL=

"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?"
What Does it Mean to "Perish?"

THE NARROW GATE
The language is entirely confined to the present.
"Lord, are there few that be 'saved'?" The literal rendering is: "Are those being saved few?" The question relates entirely to the number then, at that time that were entering the narrow door and accepting Christ.
But we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.





 
Old 03-21-2016, 10:43 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,894,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Jesus taught truth on the matter--there is no need for the contradictory words of men. Jesus taught

Enter through the narrow gate, for cramped is the road that leads off into life( everlasting) FEW will find it, For many have entered the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction( everlasting)
Matthew 7:14 (YLT)
how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

"few are finding" not "few will ever find"

are - present indicative
finding - present active participle

Participles
A participle is considered a "verbal adjective". It is often a word that ends with an "-ing" in English (such as "speaking," "having," or "seeing"). Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)

The number of the Sons of God will be countess like the sands of the sea. Not few.

Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God
 
Old 03-21-2016, 10:54 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,020,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
All of this need for "salvation" assumes that death is some kind of terrible punishment that we must be "saved" from.

But is death some kind of terrible punishment? Without death, we would have a massive overpopulation problem.

Think about it.
I hope you're thinking about Roger's replies also.

The population problem is not our concern. God has a plan that is revealed forwards another 1000 years from now. That is enough to know. But yes, be a good steward of the earth, just don't make stewarding it into an idol.

There's two types of death, physical and spiritual - one of the flesh, and one of self reliance. What we need 'saving' from is the second (type of) death. It takes a revelation to understand this. What the incorrect literal rapture theory (aka, left behind) is all based on is fear of the literal death of the body, of which I think only Enoch escaped that. That's why, on the basis of Pascal's wager (realising i am likely to die, rather than disappear into thin air) i changed my belief about what the rapture was, after searching for more spiritually realistic interpretations.
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