U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-19-2016, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245

Advertisements

LOUIS ABBOTT – UNIVERSAL SALVATION ASSURED
Interested students of the Word of God will decide if Louis Abbott knows what He is talking about.

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – LOUIS ABBOTT
In the forward to his book AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS, Louis Abbott wrote, “One key area various denominations are divided over is the final destiny of the ungodly, the wicked, the unsaved, the unregenerate, or however one wishes to phrase it.
There are three views on this subject. Each position claims Scriptural support: (1) eternal torment; (2) eternal destruction; and (3) the ultimate salvation of all. It is obvious that all cannot be correct. Two of them have to be wrong.
I pray this book will be a blessing to all who are struggling with this subject.” (unquote)

Notice how Louis proves that numbers one and two are wrong according to the Bible.
This book can be read online at this link
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words


ENJOY!
Eight interviews with Greek scholar Louis Abbott about his belief that the Bible teaches universal salvation (in eight parts)
Copy and paste the links into your browser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJoNxjUAAi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuoRnAsugew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAsVTXJYEHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sblmYiX4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfx6tcwq3M4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM5fSRDxVwg
athiest - Tentmaker Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoWeKXdNhyg
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-19-2016, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,279 posts, read 1,146,726 times
Reputation: 1333
"But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” - Jesus
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
Post Judas

JUDAS
Here is why the case of Judas does not disprove universal salvation.
Because of the betrayal of Judas, Jesus was introduced to the woe of extreme suffering. It would have been better for Jesus if Judas had not been born.

Greek scholar Louis Abbott wrote:
"Let us look carefully at the Greek text: kalon ên auto eiouk egennêthê ho anthropos ekeinos, "Ideal were it for Him if that man were not born" or "It were ideal for Him if that man was not born." The question is asked, Who is the Him? The answer is in the preceding clause. There we have the pronoun autou, "Him," and anthropo ekeino, "that man," both referred to in such a way that we cannot mistake them. "The Son of Man indeed goeth as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!" "Him" is the Son of Man, "that man" is Judas.
The Him cannot refer to Judas, therefore the text can be paraphrased as, "Ideal were it for Him (the Son of Man) if that man (Judas) were not born."
That is the understanding that the syntax requires.
Therefore, Mark 14:21 does not contradict Col. 1:15-20; 1 Tim. 4:9-11; Rom. 5:18, 19; etc., all teaching the ultimate salvation of Judas."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 02:28 PM
 
696 posts, read 370,922 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
LOUIS ABBOTT – UNIVERSAL SALVATION ASSURED
Interested students of the Word of God will decide if Louis Abbott knows what He is talking about.

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – LOUIS ABBOTT
In the forward to his book AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS, Louis Abbott wrote, “One key area various denominations are divided over is the final destiny of the ungodly, the wicked, the unsaved, the unregenerate, or however one wishes to phrase it.
There are three views on this subject. Each position claims Scriptural support: (1) eternal torment; (2) eternal destruction; and (3) the ultimate salvation of all. It is obvious that all cannot be correct. Two of them have to be wrong.
I pray this book will be a blessing to all who are struggling with this subject.” (unquote)

Notice how Louis proves that numbers one and two are wrong according to the Bible.
This book can be read online at this link
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words


ENJOY!
Eight interviews with Greek scholar Louis Abbott about his belief that the Bible teaches universal salvation (in eight parts)
Copy and paste the links into your browser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJoNxjUAAi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuoRnAsugew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAsVTXJYEHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sblmYiX4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfx6tcwq3M4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM5fSRDxVwg
athiest - Tentmaker Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoWeKXdNhyg

Dear tutt,
Your number 3 seems to align with what the serpent told Eve in the Garden of Eden. (Gen 3:4)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
"THOU SHALT NOT SURELY DIE"

Sinners whose names are not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. But everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

“Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?
The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.
biblical studies: Questions and Answers - Part One
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 02:40 PM
 
1,286 posts, read 2,166,080 times
Reputation: 670
So we can look forward to seeing Hitler, Mao, Lincoln, and other mass murderers in heaven?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
RESPONSES TO PHILISOPHICAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION
Good news of God's love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
Christian Universalism FAQ - Good news of God's love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker

Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 03:35 PM
 
4,564 posts, read 2,264,983 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electron View Post
So we can look forward to seeing Hitler, Mao, Lincoln, and other mass murderers in heaven?
Hold on there.
First, we do Not know who has committed the unforgivable sin - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6
Second, we do Not know exactly who are the ones called to heaven - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; Luke 22:28-29; Daniel 7:18,22,27
Third, most people are called, so to speak, to live forever on earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:11,29
Forth, the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:11,14-15; Jeremiah 25:31-33

So, except for those committing the unforgivable sin Romans 6:7 applies: The one who has died is freed or acquitted from sin. Not meaning they are now innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick. So, how a person acts or behaves ' after ' they are resurrected back to life on earth can determine if they will gain everlasting life on earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Under Christ's millennium-long day of governing over earth there will be healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 03:41 PM
 
4,564 posts, read 2,264,983 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
RESPONSES TO PHILISOPHICAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION
God does Not clear the guilty - Exodus 34:7
Those committing the unforgivable sin are Not forgiven - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6
The wicked will be destroyed forever - Isaiah 11:3-4; Psalm 92:7; Jeremiah 25:31-33
Jesus destroys wicked Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B - and Satan ends up in ' second death ' Rev. 21:8. So, ' second death' is a fitting term for: destruction ( annihilation ) - Psalm 92:7
So, there is No universal salvation.
At the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - the haughty ' goats ' will Not be part of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth when Jesus will have subjects from sea to sea - Psalm 72:8, 12-14.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2016, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,741,256 times
Reputation: 245
The guilty will receive kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement)

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say aboutit too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

Fifteen literally translated (notinterpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.shtml

Dean Hough wrote “The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .”(p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivifiedin Christ.
The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).”
Dean Hough

THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN
Instead of being forgiven, the sinner will suffer the consequences.
But the consequenses are eonian, not eternal.
I found this link helpful.
biblical studies: The Blasphemy of the Spirit

The correct literal translation:
Mk 3: 28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the
sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies,
whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be
blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is having no pardon for the eon,
but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin- (Concordant Literal
Translation)

This is a thrilling poem by Matthew Arnold, keeping in mind the following fact.
Universalism was The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years
Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years
As students of the history of Christian doctrine know, among believers in eternal torment, Tertullian was one of the most extreme. That is why I think this poem is so powerful. It sent a thrill up and down my spine. :-)

“He saves the sheep, the goats he doth not save!”
So rang Tertullian’s sentence, on the side
Of that unpitying Phrygian sect which cried, --
“Him can no fount of fresh forgiveness lave
Who sins, once washed by the baptismal wave!”
So spake the fierce Tertullian. But she sighed,
The infant church, of love she felt the tide
Stream on her from her Lord’s yet recent grave,
And then she smiled, and in the Catacombs,
With eye suffused, but heart inspired true,
On those walls subterranean, where she hid
Her head in ignominy, death and tombs,
She her Good Shepherd’s hasty image drew,
And on His shoulders, not a lamb, a kid.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 03-19-2016 at 04:16 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top