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Old 04-13-2016, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,595 posts, read 5,120,460 times
Reputation: 3917

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Is the answer to:
  • use of unsterilized needles answered?
  • was the fact that palliative care did not exist in any meaningful way answered? Warehousing people, and reveling that they are suffering like Jesus is not palliative care.
  • was the issue of the millions raised that were used for convents answered?

If so, please point me to where. Quit calling me a troll, or equating me to fundies, SHOW me where those issues were answered in a meaningful way.

Show me.
I haven't called you a troll although looking at thread after thread that you start forever putting down any kind of spirituality or pointing out still another Christian who has been a human being and screwed up, it is very hard to see what modern idiom would fit your personal problem.

Answer these questions:
Were the poor in India better off living on the street and in garbage dumps?
Were they better off alone and forgotten?
Where were you when Mother Theresa was "warehousing" people? Sitting on your ass criticizing her for trying to do SOMETHING?

1. As I asked previously, was Mother Theresa a full fledged physician or did her medical training consist of three months with some 1930's RCC nurses?
2. Why should giving someone shelter from the elements be considered warehousing when those people were being left near garbage heaps to die?
3. Where did MT get her accounting skills to deal with millions of dollars in donations late in her life?
4. Is it possible that her simple dream as a young girl grew beyond her ability to comprehend, let alone manage? Or should she have gotten an MBA prior to trying to help someone?
5. Why did so many of the poor she "warehoused" love her so deeply? I mean she was treating them terrible, right? She was climbing a ladder to heaven on their backs and they were all too blind to see it?

Many people criticized Albert Schweitzer for his Christian views while he spent much of his life in Gabon, west Africa building a hospital for poor people. Again, the criticizers were sitting at home not lifting a finger to help anyone.

The fact that you are criticizing someone who attempted to accomplish some good for people who had nothing and did so for decades with little funding while living in the same conditions as the people she brought in really points out your disregard for humanity. Why didn't you sacrifice your life so that by the time you were 60 you could rub your fingers together gleefully over millions coming in donations?

The only shame here is on us for not doing the same, and doubly for you in that you would have the hubris to criticize someone who did.

And, no, she wasn't a saint---but then she wasn't a do nothing complainer either. She was a flawed human who tried to walk in Jesus' footsteps.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,316 posts, read 2,890,963 times
Reputation: 6786
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
If that is the case, your Jesus is as bad as she was. She was a mean spirited, deluded old hag, who abused and used the dying to push her cause to build her order.

A more horrible person I can't imagine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
No, I'm firmly in the camp of those that refuse to believe in fairy tales, myths and especially lies. The image of Teresa of Calcutta is built on that.

No one apparently has the integrity to honestly answer the three questions I posed, many of them calling themselves christian. Would your jesus do that? Would your jesus deflect? Would your jesus avoid? The stories you say you believe in about your jesus say something different.

And you sound like a mean spirited old codger. Do you badger practicing Jews, Muslims and Hindus about their beliefs the same way you do practicing Christians? Or, are Christians the lucky ones?

I'm not much of a Christian myself (I might be an agnostic), so I rarely ever come into the Religion sub-forum. But, honestly, I'm exhausted just reading through this thread, which is the same effect the P&OC threads usually have on me. You seem as angry and consumed with a need to force your views on others as many posters over there are. Do you go through life this way? Good grief.

Last edited by newdixiegirl; 04-13-2016 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:22 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,736,921 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I knew you wouldn't get it. You're as self-blind as any fundie.

But I tried anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Find someone else to be your stooge.

So I see you will continue to denigrate me for pointing out the horrible way Teresa of Calcutta acted, yet won't answer the three questions, OR show me where they were answered if I missed it.

Deflection, deflection, deflection. The three things to do when your argument has no legs.

If I'm wrong and they have been answered, SHOW ME. I'll gladly admit a mistake, however, so far all one gets is deflections, not answers.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:28 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,736,921 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
I haven't called you a troll although looking at thread after thread that you start forever putting down any kind of spirituality or pointing out still another Christian who has been a human being and screwed up, it is very hard to see what modern idiom would fit your personal problem.

Answer these questions:
Were the poor in India better off living on the street and in garbage dumps?
Were they better off alone and forgotten?
Where were you when Mother Theresa was "warehousing" people? Sitting on your ass criticizing her for trying to do SOMETHING?

1. As I asked previously, was Mother Theresa a full fledged physician or did her medical training consist of three months with some 1930's RCC nurses?
2. Why should giving someone shelter from the elements be considered warehousing when those people were being left near garbage heaps to die?
3. Where did MT get her accounting skills to deal with millions of dollars in donations late in her life?
4. Is it possible that her simple dream as a young girl grew beyond her ability to comprehend, let alone manage? Or should she have gotten an MBA prior to trying to help someone?
5. Why did so many of the poor she "warehoused" love her so deeply? I mean she was treating them terrible, right? She was climbing a ladder to heaven on their backs and they were all too blind to see it?

Many people criticized Albert Schweitzer for his Christian views while he spent much of his life in Gabon, west Africa building a hospital for poor people. Again, the criticizers were sitting at home not lifting a finger to help anyone.

The fact that you are criticizing someone who attempted to accomplish some good for people who had nothing and did so for decades with little funding while living in the same conditions as the people she brought in really points out your disregard for humanity. Why didn't you sacrifice your life so that by the time you were 60 you could rub your fingers together gleefully over millions coming in donations?

The only shame here is on us for not doing the same, and doubly for you in that you would have the hubris to criticize someone who did.

And, no, she wasn't a saint---but then she wasn't a do nothing complainer either. She was a flawed human who tried to walk in Jesus' footsteps.
You were aware, I assume, that presenting questions to questions is not an answer.

She championed the suffering of her charges. She raised millions and spent the bulk elsewhere. She raised millions and could have improved the medical care.

She didn't. She was a horrible fraud. The only thing worse I can think of than warehousing dying people (and causing some to die which didn't have to due to the unsanitary conditions, which has been documented), and thinking that their suffering is a good thing because Jesus suffered are those that enjoy torture and killing of fellow humans.

You also are in love with the image, not the reality. Some estimates go as high as $500 million dollars she raised from dictators and convicted crooks, yet there was no money for her death warehouses? REALLY?

My three questions are unanswered.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:30 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,351,992 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So I see you will continue to denigrate me for pointing out the horrible way Teresa of Calcutta acted, yet won't answer the three questions, OR show me where they were answered if I missed it.

Deflection, deflection, deflection. The three things to do when your argument has no legs.

If I'm wrong and they have been answered, SHOW ME. I'll gladly admit a mistake, however, so far all one gets is deflections, not answers.
So your plan is to make someone else look bad?

Meh. Whatever.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:35 PM
 
37,522 posts, read 25,250,403 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Is the answer to:
  • use of unsterilized needles answered?
  • was the fact that palliative care did not exist in any meaningful way answered? Warehousing people, and reveling that they are suffering like Jesus is not palliative care.
  • was the issue of the millions raised that were used for convents answered?

If so, please point me to where. Quit calling me a troll, or equating me to fundies, SHOW me where those issues were answered in a meaningful way.

Show me.
Your attitude and actions are quite hateful, cupper. Your overly vituperative bile and vitriol against MT clearly has a subconscious psychological source we are not able to trace. When someone obsessively fixates on an external target for their vitriol, it usually relates to something in their own psychology and subconscious that they are actually attacking. MT was NOT a Medical Doctor, NOT a rocket scientist, and certainly was NOT a brilliant CEO with financial competence. Her focus was NOT on money, per se. It was on creating more people whose lives were dedicated to helping those being ignored and left to die in the worst parts of the world, e.g. convents. When your benchmark is utter filth, lack of any sanitation, etc. abandonment and complete rejection, then providing loving care, sanitation, and if needed medicine (even with unsterile needles) is far superior to what they were enduring. Focus your vitriol on the Organization (RCC) under whose aegis she operated for any of what you consider the misuses and misdirection of donated funds.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:49 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,736,921 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your attitude and actions are quite hateful, cupper. Your overly vituperative bile and vitriol against MT clearly has a subconscious psychological source we are not able to trace. When someone obsessively fixates on an external target for their vitriol, it usually relates to something in their own psychology and subconscious that they are actually attacking. MT was NOT a Medical Doctor, NOT a rocket scientist, and certainly was NOT a brilliant CEO with financial competence. Her focus was NOT on money, per se. It was on creating more people whose lives were dedicated to helping those being ignored and left to die in the worst parts of the world, e.g. convents. When your benchmark is utter filth, lack of any sanitation, etc. abandonment and complete rejection, then providing loving care, sanitation, and if needed medicine (even with unsterile needles) is far superior to what they were enduring. Focus your vitriol on the Organization (RCC) under whose aegis she operated for any of what you consider the misuses and misdirection of donated funds.
Great, I'm not a medical doctor or a geologist. But I know when I am dealing in the areas that they have expertise in, I go to them for direction, not invent my own. Especially when I have millions to ensure the best advise is given, but rather, express joy that the dying are suffering. Do you need the quote, or are you aware that Teresa of Calcutta voiced that opinion?

Nuns who quit the order and who worked in the finance offices have testified as to what happened there. Teresa of Calcutta may not have been a financial genius, but she certainly knew enough to get funds from dictators and convicted criminals. She certainly had the expertise of the Vatican curia behind her, and they know finances.

She was not a saint, and the negligence she practiced could and would result in criminal charges in many jurisdictions. She expressed joy that her charges were suffering. How cruel is that?

Is pointing out these things hateful or accurate? Are facts EVER hateful? The ostrich stereotype is well and alive when it comes to this wretched individual. The image is what many people remember, not the reality.

Teresa of Calcutta on the dying:

"There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ's Passion. The world gains much from their suffering"



And this is one we should revere?
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:51 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,736,921 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
So your plan is to make someone else look bad?

Meh. Whatever.
Still can't or won't answer those questions it seems. I know fundies like that. Make all sorts of spin, deflections and personal denigration, but will not answer questions, simple questions, that are presented.

Why not?

Because they can not be answered with out those that answer them coming to the same conclusion I am, and just like other believes that one may have, they don't want to see that belief destroyed.
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:14 PM
 
37,522 posts, read 25,250,403 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your attitude and actions are quite hateful, cupper. Your overly vituperative bile and vitriol against MT clearly has a subconscious psychological source we are not able to trace. When someone obsessively fixates on an external target for their vitriol, it usually relates to something in their own psychology and subconscious that they are actually attacking. MT was NOT a Medical Doctor, NOT a rocket scientist, and certainly was NOT a brilliant CEO with financial competence. Her focus was NOT on money, per se. It was on creating more people whose lives were dedicated to helping those being ignored and left to die in the worst parts of the world, e.g. convents. When your benchmark is utter filth, lack of any sanitation, etc. abandonment and complete rejection, then providing loving care, sanitation, and if needed medicine (even with unsterile needles) is far superior to what they were enduring. Focus your vitriol on the Organization (RCC) under whose aegis she operated for any of what you consider the misuses and misdirection of donated funds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
And this is one we should revere?
The question you should be asking is why you are so fixated on her and what in you drives this obsessive focus on someone who is dead and from an area so far removed from yours. You would destroy a positive image and inspiration that promotes a focus on positive concern for the poor, abandoned, rejected and abused to what end??? What is your replacement for this image and force for good that you would desecrate and denigrate?? What do you seek to accomplish by your obsession?? Look within, cupper. What is motivating this vitriol and vituperation?
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:34 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,736,921 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The question you should be asking is why you are so fixated on her and what in you drives this obsessive focus on someone who is dead and from an area so far removed from yours. You would destroy a positive image and inspiration that promotes a focus on positive concern for the poor, abandoned, rejected and abused to what end??? What is your replacement for this image and force for good that you would desecrate and denigrate?? What do you seek to accomplish by your obsession?? Look within, cupper. What is motivating this vitriol and vituperation?

Because the positive image is built on a lie. I don't believe ANY individual, or philosophy, that is built on a lie, should be revered. That just gets us a virtual theocracy like we have in North Korea. You know, where they say that divinely anointed flocks of magpies had been flocking to a monument of Kim Jong-Il's father, Kim Il-sung when he died, AND warbled in Korean.

Lies that are so large people believe them, and I think that is a horrible way to propagate an idea.

Let's try living, telling and promoting TRUTH, not fables, not myth and certainly not lies when we actually have knowledge of those lies.

So, are you going to be able to answer those three questions, or will you also continue to deflect and excuse?

I never will support the spreading of lies.
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