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Old 04-15-2016, 12:26 AM
 
37,615 posts, read 25,312,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Can't or won't answer the questions either, right? Instead, deflecting and attacking the messenger, trying to get away from the message. A true amateur. Or a dishonest fanboy of MT.
You seriously need to look inward for whatever is driving your obsession with MT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your questions were answered but you do not like the answers. You refuse to see anything but your bigoted perspective from your privileged American lifestyle. Your inability or unwillingness to even contemplate the differences that dominate in other cultures, cultural backwaters, and uncivilized sh*tholes reveals whatever sickness is driving your obsession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Yes, you are the sole messianic figure looking into the hearts of people long dead.
I'm not bamboozled, but you are. Every criticism I find of "Mother Teresa" turns out to be criticism of this facility or that. It is you and Hitchens who have inducted those situations into The heart of MT, angel from hell. One of your own atheist buddies doesn't do that and she was there in Calcutta at one of the centers.
Since YOU are the one who has been trolling on MT (there, I have now called you what this twice begun thread appears as the result of) the burden of proof is on you to prove she, personally, hands on or by direction, is guilty of these horrible third world conditions of care.
You do realize there are a few people out there who like to portray our Abe Lincoln as a racist who simply used slavery to launch a war of attrition on the South, right?
By the way, Jesus lived in a third world country. Those Jewish people separated lepers and plenty of other people to keep them away from healthy people. MT took them in her arms and off the street, into a "warehouse" that was a thousand times better than lying on the street in Calcutta. But good is never good enough for someone demanding perfection.
There is a very deep and troubling issue driving his obsession with MT and his desire to trash whatever good she achieved and has encouraged in others. He refuses to engage in the introspection to discover what it is, so I suspect we will never get him to do so.
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:10 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,756,374 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You seriously need to look inward for whatever is driving your obsession with MT.

There is a very deep and troubling issue driving his obsession with MT and his desire to trash whatever good she achieved and has encouraged in others. He refuses to engage in the introspection to discover what it is, so I suspect we will never get him to do so.

What do I despise? I despise the pedestal she is put on, and not be called accountable for the inexcusable negligence that has caused hundreds, if not thousands, to suffer, and some of them who needlessly died.

Sad is that so many excuse this.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:09 AM
 
8,827 posts, read 6,318,473 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Can't or won't answer the questions either, right? Instead, deflecting and attacking the messenger, trying to get away from the message. A true amateur. Or a dishonest fanboy of MT.
Religion is mythology.
Answering questions to disprove it is fruitless.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 181,275 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
That makes her faith even more remarkable than what either of us have
to offer.
By her own admissions in private letters written to spiritual counselors;
Teresa was never really quite sure there's a God out there.

"I am told God loves me; and yet the reality of darkness & coldness &
emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul."

"The damned of Hell suffer eternal punishment because they experiment
with the loss of God. In my own soul, I feel the terrible pain of this loss. I
feel that God does not want me, that God is not God; and that He does not
really exist."

Were you a conscientious student of the Bible; her admissions would alert
you to the fact that Teresa didn't "fight the Lord's battles."

†. Heb 11:6 . .Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone
who comes to Him must believe that he exists.

Webster's defines "impossible" as: incapable of being, or of occurring.

Webster's defines "must" as an indispensable item; viz: essential.

A person with problems believing in the existence of God is walking in
darkness; which is a very bad thing for a Christian missionary.

†. 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in
the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

The Greek word for "fellowship" indicates an alliance. In other words; Teresa
carried on her work in India without God; and she knew it too.

"Now Father-- since 49 or 50 this terrible sense of loss-- this untold
darkness-- this loneliness, this continual longing for God-- which gives me
pain deep down in my heart-- Darkness is such that I really do not see
neither with my mind nor with my reason-- the place of God in my soul is
blank-- There is no God in me-- when the pain of longing is so great-- I just
long & long for God-- and then it is that I feel-- He does not want me-- He is
not there-- God does not want me-- Sometimes-- I just hear my own heart
cry out -- "My God" and nothing else comes-- the torture and pain I can't
explain"

Ironically, a demon's level of faith is actually superior to Teresa's. At least
they're confident that God exists.

†. Jas 2:19-20 . . You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the
demons believe-- and tremble!

I simply cannot approve of a Christian missionary whose belief in God
doesn't even measure up to the quality of a demon's belief.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Last edited by NyawehNyoh; 04-15-2016 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,756,374 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Religion is mythology.
Answering questions to disprove it is fruitless.
Er, the subject is not religion, which I would agree with you, but the non-actions and actions of a fraud.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:49 AM
 
8,827 posts, read 6,318,473 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Er, the subject is not religion, which I would agree with you, but the non-actions and actions of a fraud.
Mother Theresa is a saint and you cannot disprove that.
Do you even know what is a saint?
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 181,275 times
Reputation: 57
-
In order to discuss Mother Teresa intelligently, it's necessary to bring her
religion into the picture because Teresa was a Christian missionary whose
duty it was to represent the beliefs and practices of Roman Catholicism;
which is a religion that holds the Holy Bible in very high regard.

"The Scriptures are sacred and canonical because: Having been written by
inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author, and as such
have been handed down to the Church" (Vatican Council; Sess. III, c. ii)

"In its pages we recognize His voice, we hear a message of deep significance
for every one of us. Through the spiritual dynamism and prophetic force of
the Bible, the Holy Spirit spreads His light and His warmth over all men, in
whatever historical or sociological situation they find themselves." (Paulus PP
VI, from the Vatican, September 18, 1970)

So then; according to that Vatican Council and to Paulus PP VI; when I listen
to the Bible; I'm listening to the voice of God, and I'm also listening to that
which the Holy Spirit utilizes to spread His light and His warmth over all
men.

So then, if conscientious Christians are to truly understand Teresa's spiritual
problems, they have to utilize the Holy Bible to analyze them or otherwise
they'll just end up making excuses for her like so many others.

Now the tragedy is: Teresa's spiritual counselors didn't turn to the Holy Bible
to analyze her spiritual problems; as a result, they were just as mystified as
she was and no help at all. It's awful to think that the very people that poor
woman depended upon so heavily might just as well been oil field
roughnecks and shipyard welders because they were utterly incompetent as
shepherds.

You know; when your ship is sinking and another sinking ship is sent to your
rescue; you're in really big, big trouble because at that point, no amount of
prayer and sympathy will keep you from going to Davy Jones.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:08 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,756,374 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Mother Theresa is a saint and you cannot disprove that.
Do you even know what is a saint?
Of course she is a saint; after all, she spent the millions she raised on her convents, which, in the catholic churches point of view, is what saints do, they promote the religion. Oh and apparently performed some miracle involving a tumor after she died. The one medical science actually got rid of. However, she apparently was not able to perform any miracles during her span on earth, instead, she raised millions under false pretenses. Very little ended up alleviating suffering of the dying, because, in her words, it was good for them to suffer like jesus.

What a horrible perspective, don't you agree?
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 181,275 times
Reputation: 57
-
As I've already pointed out in several posts, Teresa admitted to feeling
abandoned by Christ, and in point of fact was unsure that a God actually
exists out there.

Well; according to the Holy Bible-- which Roman Catholicism holds in very
high regard --God has a supernatural way of assuring His own that He does
in fact exist and that they are not abandoned.

†. Rom 8:16 . .The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are
children of God,

The Greek word for "bears witness" means to corroborate; which Webster's
defines as: to support with evidence.

It is possible to short circuit the Spirit's witness.

†. 1Ths 5:19 . . Do not quench the Spirit.

How does one quench the Spirit? Well . . the better question is: How did the
most dedicated Catholic nun the twentieth century every produced manage
to quench Him? If the most pious role model in the modern Catholic world
could quench God's Spirit for virtually five decades, then where does that
leave John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer?

Here's an item of interest that isn't talked about much.

†. Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of slavery again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba,
Father!

Abba is an Aramaic word. It refers to one's male parent but not as an
ordinary noun. It's a vocative.

For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends and says
"That's my dad over there." he's not using dad as a vocative. But when he
shouts "Hey dad, I'm over here!" then he's using dad to get my attention.
That's a vocative.

Rom 8:15 is saying that the spirit of adoption compels "we" to call out to a
father rather than a mother. So then, people who feel compelled to call out
to Jesus' mom instead of his Father, are not the Father's children because
the spirit of adoption would never compel them to do that.

The spirit of adoption, as it turns out, is the spirit of God's son.

†. Gal 4:6 . . As proof that you are children, God sent the spirit of His son
into our hearts, crying out: Abba, Father!

The spirit of His son compels the children to pray to Jesus' Father, never to
his mother because Jesus never prayed to his mother. So then, people
compelled by the spirit of His son will address their prayers to Jesus' Father
same as he did.

What does that tell us about Mother Teresa and her devotion to Jesus'
mother? Duh. She did not have the spirit of His son in her heart; and she
knew it too.

"The place of God in my soul is blank-- There is no God in me"

People lacking the spirit of His son are not His son's sheep.

†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Last edited by NyawehNyoh; 04-15-2016 at 10:54 AM..
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,638 posts, read 5,139,057 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
-
As I've already pointed out in several posts, Teresa admitted to feeling
abandoned by Christ, and in point of fact was unsure that a God actually
exists out there.

Well; according to the Holy Bible-- which Roman Catholicism holds in very
high regard --God has a supernatural way of assuring His own that He does
in fact exist and that they are not abandoned.

†. Rom 8:16 . .The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are
children of God,

The Greek word for "bears witness" means to corroborate; which Webster's
defines as: to support with evidence.

It is possible to short circuit the Spirit's witness.

†. 1Ths 5:19 . . Do not quench the Spirit.

How does one quench the Spirit? Well . . the better question is: How did the
most dedicated Catholic nun the twentieth century every produced manage
to quench Him? If the most pious role model in the modern Catholic world
could quench God's Spirit for virtually five decades, then where does that
leave John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer?

Here's an item of interest that isn't talked about much.

†. Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of slavery again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba,
Father!

Abba is an Aramaic word. It refers to one's male parent but not as an
ordinary noun. It's a vocative.

For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends and says
"That's my dad over there." he's not using dad as a vocative. But when he
shouts "Hey dad, I'm over here!" then he's using dad to get my attention.
That's a vocative.

Rom 8:15 is saying that the spirit of adoption compels "we" to call out to a
father rather than a mother. So then, people who feel compelled to call out
to Jesus' mom instead of his Father, are not the Father's children because
the spirit of adoption would never compel them to do that.

The spirit of adoption, as it turns out, is the spirit of God's son.

†. Gal 4:6 . . As proof that you are children, God sent the spirit of His son
into our hearts, crying out: Abba, Father!

The spirit of His son compels the children to pray to Jesus' Father, never to
his mother because Jesus never prayed to his mother. So then, people
compelled by the spirit of His son will address their prayers to Jesus' Father
same as he did.

What does that tell us about Mother Teresa and her devotion to Jesus'
mother? Duh. She did not have the spirit of His son in her heart; and she
knew it too.

"The place of God in my soul is blank-- There is no God in me"

People lacking the spirit of His son are not His son's sheep.

†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You have a sexist god. Paul said there was no male nor female in Christ. Jesus said there is no marrying in heaven.

Your soul is so pure it's a wonder that you would deign to speak to stupid people like us.

Quote:
When the Most Rev. Justin Welby, the archbishop of Canterbury, said recently that at times he questioned if God was really there, much of the reaction was predictably juvenile: Even God’s earthly emissary isn’t sure if the whole thing is made up!
The International Business Times called it “the doubt of the century.” Archbishop Welby’s admission had not just “raised a few eyebrows,” it declared, but “sparked concerns if the leader of the Church of England would one day renounce Christianity or spirituality as a whole.”
-------
But Archbishop Welby’s candor only makes him human. He may lead 80 million Anglicans worldwide, but he is also a man who knows anguish, rage, incomprehension and the cold bareness of grief. He lost his firstborn child, Johanna, a 7-month-old baby girl, in a car accident in 1983, a period he has described as “utter agony.” As a teenager he cared for an alcoholic father. When explaining his thoughts on doubt, he referred to the mournful Psalm 88, which describes the despair of a man who has lost all of his friends and cries out, “Why, Lord, do you reject me and hide your face from me?” The psalm reads bleakly: “Darkness is my closest friend.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/op...aith.html?_r=0

I think your kind of "faith" was spoken of by Bertrand Russel: "The problem with the wise is they are so filled with doubts while the dull are so certain."

Faith which does not doubt is dead faith.—Miguel de Unamuno

It is the dull man who is always sure, and the sure man who is always dull. --H. L. Mencken

Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith. --Paul Tillich

Only he who believes is obedient. Only he who is obedient, believes. --Deitrich Bonhoeffer

God isn't looking for people of great faith, but for individuals ready to follow Him --Hudson Taylor

Bottom line--if you ever develop enough doubts to do half what MT did, God Himself would crown you a saint.

The kind of faith MT lived is this:
Faith is the refusal to panic. --David Martyn Lloyd-Jones
So on she plodded when doubts assailed her. She is a living example of faithfulness in the face of doubt.
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