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Old 04-17-2016, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,761 times
Reputation: 57

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Webster's defines "fiduciary" as: relating to or involving trust (such as the trust between a customer and a professional)

Had Teresa never spent a dime of her own personal money to alleviate suffering I would not hold it against her. But she had a fiduciary responsibility to supporters to utilize their donations towards the purpose for which they gave.

During Teresa's administration, people all over the world sent the Sisters Of Charity millions of dollars in good faith, assuming those dollars would be used in places like India to improve the lives of the sick, the poor, the dying, the hungry, and the disadvantaged.

†. 1Cor 4:2 . . It is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful.

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Old 04-17-2016, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,610 posts, read 5,127,751 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
That's not trolling. Those are his threads. Trolling is what someone does on other peoples threads.

I for one want to know about things like this. Here I was thinking MT was doing wonderful work alleviating the suffering of the poor sick and dying. I want to know the truth. That won't happen if someone doesn't say something. That said, I will form my own conclusions based on the available evidence. If the evidence is inconclusive or insufficient then I will reserve judgement, so to speak, until I do have enough evidence.

So, I actually appreciate cupper highlighting these issues. We can debate him and challenge him and ask for information sources so we can check for ourselves but I don't believe we should be attempting to censor anyone. By all means, present a counter argument. That is after all how a balanced perspective is presented.

It's not such a big deal that she may have been a fraud but it is huge if she was doing a disservice to those in suffering. The problem is that on the face of it, she seems to have doing a disservice.

Now I want to hear the counter argument in her defense. After all, it is a grave allegation against her.
Quote:
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Sorry, but cupper3 gets off on bashing anything that smacks of christianity. In addition, he is one of the most prolific, if not THE most prolific, starters of anti-God threads on the internet. And all of them are extremely inflammatory.
A few of his current sub-threads under the Religion and Spirituality thread include:
Catholic Church truly sorry about pedophilia? Nope, not at all;----
Those of faith lack an analytical mind---
You KNOW what you believe is just thoughts, not knowledge, right?
Pastor heads $2.6 million illegal drug operations, out of church--
Proof religion is man made: 2016, Passover happens AFTER Easter

He is passionate about his non-belief and that is fine, but he is doing the same kind of proselytizing that he accuses christians of, and appears to want an emotional response from readers.

Proof in MT's defense is something thought of by those believing in guilt. The arguments against MT are a few and far between, not supported by the Indian people as a whole who honored her as one of the few "white" people to ever stand up for their poor and disenfranchised, and even provided a state funeral for her.

Quote:
"As a matter of respect and homage, the government decided to break out of protocol and observe state mourning Saturday all over the country and to accord her state funeral status," the spokesman told Reuters.

Mother Teresa will be accorded honors usually reserved for presidents or serving prime ministers.
The decision to hold a state funeral came as a surprise in tradition-bound India, which had already given Mother Teresa its highest award, the Bharat Ratna, in 1980 -- one year after she won the Nobel Peace Prize.

"Though she was a world citizen, she was particularly Indian in the true spirit of our culture and her passing away is an immense loss," Indian President K.R. Narayanan said.
CNN - India to give Mother Teresa state funeral - September 6, 1997

Why is it only "outsiders" are demonizing MT? Wouldn't the people she so mistreated be compelled to speak up? If it were so widespread wouldn't more than a few come forward to tell how she grew horns just before jabbing them with an unsterilized needle?

It's beyond credibility that the entire nation of India was "fooled," by someone who did them much harm. The only internal criticism came from an Indian political party that claimed she was doing deathbed conversions.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 04-17-2016 at 02:49 PM..
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Old 04-17-2016, 04:28 PM
 
37,573 posts, read 25,275,797 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Sorry, but cupper3 gets off on bashing anything that smacks of christianity. In addition, he is one of the most prolific, if not THE most prolific, starters of anti-God threads on the internet. And all of them are extremely inflammatory.
A few of his current sub-threads under the Religion and Spirituality thread include:
Catholic Church truly sorry about pedophilia? Nope, not at all;----
Those of faith lack an analytical mind---
You KNOW what you believe is just thoughts, not knowledge, right?
Pastor heads $2.6 million illegal drug operations, out of church--
Proof religion is man made: 2016, Passover happens AFTER Easter

He is passionate about his non-belief and that is fine, but he is doing the same kind of proselytizing that he accuses christians of, and appears to want an emotional response from readers.

Proof in MT's defense is something thought of by those believing in guilt. The arguments against MT are a few and far between, not supported by the Indian people as a whole who honored her as one of the few "white" people to ever stand up for their poor and disenfranchised, and even provided a state funeral for her.

CNN - India to give Mother Teresa state funeral - September 6, 1997

Why is it only "outsiders" are demonizing MT? Wouldn't the people she so mistreated be compelled to speak up? If it were so widespread wouldn't more than a few come forward to tell how she grew horns just before jabbing them with an unsterilized needle?

It's beyond credibility that the entire nation of India was "fooled," by someone who did them much harm. The only internal criticism came from an Indian political party that claimed she was doing deathbed conversions.
Cupper and the detractors will not be deterred, Warden. There is too much animus of an undisclosed source behind it all. It is very sad, indeed.
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Old 04-17-2016, 04:39 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,744,354 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Sorry, but cupper3 gets off on bashing anything that smacks of christianity. In addition, he is one of the most prolific, if not THE most prolific, starters of anti-God threads on the internet. And all of them are extremely inflammatory.
A few of his current sub-threads under the Religion and Spirituality thread include:
Catholic Church truly sorry about pedophilia? Nope, not at all;----
Those of faith lack an analytical mind---
You KNOW what you believe is just thoughts, not knowledge, right?
Pastor heads $2.6 million illegal drug operations, out of church--
Proof religion is man made: 2016, Passover happens AFTER Easter

He is passionate about his non-belief and that is fine, but he is doing the same kind of proselytizing that he accuses christians of, and appears to want an emotional response from readers.
Any of those news articles wrong? No? Well then why complain. The complaint should be with those that caused the news, not the messenger.

Cognitive and willful dissonance perhaps your reason? Tsk, Tsk.
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Old 04-17-2016, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,610 posts, read 5,127,751 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Any of those news articles wrong? No? Well then why complain. The complaint should be with those that caused the news, not the messenger.

Cognitive and willful dissonance perhaps your reason? Tsk, Tsk.
I'm staying on this thread to give people an opportunity to view you as the kind of messenger you truly are. I prefer honest atheists to those that prefer to spread discord. I treat you just as I do religious fundamentalists. All of you are dishonest with regard to your motivations in posting. Ulterior motivations are at the heart of those posts---and other people need to regard YOUR posts in the same light that which you wish them to regard MT.

I've provided plenty of middle of the road links, my favorite by the atheist at HuffPost, but middle of the road is not your style. Even Arequipa moved in that direction on your other MT thread. He is an atheist who looks objectively at data. You are not.

Based on rep points, I'd say some are seeing that message---and "Christian" fundamentalists hate me with a passion, so I doubt many are coming from them.
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Old 04-17-2016, 07:14 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,744,354 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
I'm staying on this thread to give people an opportunity to view you as the kind of messenger you truly are. I prefer honest atheists to those that prefer to spread discord. I treat you just as I do religious fundamentalists. All of you are dishonest with regard to your motivations in posting. Ulterior motivations are at the heart of those posts---and other people need to regard YOUR posts in the same light that which you wish them to regard MT.
So now you recognized I am the messenger. That is a good first step. I don't invent the transgressions of the religious. They seem to do a good job all by themselves. MT had a better PR machine than Jim Bakker, that's all.

Quote:
I've provided plenty of middle of the road links, my favorite by the atheist at HuffPost, but middle of the road is not your style. Even Arequipa moved in that direction on your other MT thread. He is an atheist who looks objectively at data. You are not.
That is your opinion, your welcome to it. I'll just point out one interesting tidbit. You have taken to demeaning my character, I have taken only to countering your points. You may want to look in the mirror and think about that. I have not once demeaned your character, even when you say vile things about me. Wonder what that says about you and what it says about me?

Quote:
Based on rep points, I'd say some are seeing that message---and "Christian" fundamentalists hate me with a passion, so I doubt many are coming from them.
Well, we seem to be pretty evenly matched, so the horse your jumping on is not quiet as high as you think.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:20 PM
 
1,506 posts, read 923,705 times
Reputation: 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
-
Webster's defines "fiduciary" as: relating to or involving trust (such as the trust between a customer and a professional)

she had a fiduciary responsibility to supporters to utilize their donations towards the purpose for which they gave.
Mother Theresa never conducted any fund raising campaigns. Rather, people sought her, or her organization out and sent money.

Evidently, Mother Theresa spent some of the money on her missions, then passed monies she felt she either did not have the infrastructure to use, or whose amounts would negatively impact the religious lives of the nuns to the Vatican to use as they saw fit.

As Mother Theresa, never directly solicited the funds, made no promises as to how they would be used other than "The Work of Christ", and kept the funds with in the same church, I don't see how she violated any fiduciary trust.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:16 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,744,354 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
Mother Theresa never conducted any fund raising campaigns. Rather, people sought her, or her organization out and sent money.

Evidently, Mother Theresa spent some of the money on her missions, then passed monies she felt she either did not have the infrastructure to use, or whose amounts would negatively impact the religious lives of the nuns to the Vatican to use as they saw fit.

As Mother Theresa, never directly solicited the funds, made no promises as to how they would be used other than "The Work of Christ", and kept the funds with in the same church, I don't see how she violated any fiduciary trust.
Oh please, give us a break. She most certainly was front and center in fund raising.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,610 posts, read 5,127,751 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So now you recognized I am the messenger. That is a good first step. I don't invent the transgressions of the religious. They seem to do a good job all by themselves. MT had a better PR machine than Jim Bakker, that's all.
Jim Bakker is another religious person that got caught up in all the hype. He and Tammie both had but a junior college degree, but when their ministry jumped and money began pouring in, they didn't have a clue on how to handle it. But he was prosecuted for his involvement, regardless of his ignorance concerning financial matters. Why was MT not prosecuted--because when there is no evidence--YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
That is your opinion, your welcome to it. I'll just point out one interesting tidbit. You have taken to demeaning my character, I have taken only to countering your points. You may want to look in the mirror and think about that. I have not once demeaned your character, even when you say vile things about me. Wonder what that says about you and what it says about me?
I'm sorry, I provide the definition of a troll and provide "evidence" of you doing so as well. Surely you can see where my castigation of you is almost equal to yours of MT. Except she is dead and can't respond. Do you know how to define "troll?" Is my information incomplete? Someone else on one of the other threads had counted how many you have started---more in the last three months than I have in my several years on CD.

You are more and more sounding like the persecuted "christians" that come on these threads. You are more than welcome to state anything at all about me, because my internet persona is unable to be insulted. That's all it is--an internet persona.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Well, we seem to be pretty evenly matched, so the horse your jumping on is not quiet as high as you think.
I don't enjoy these written battles, but then my calling is to put people on a middle ground and fight against the "end" pieces. You are at one end, and jeffbase40 at the other.

Quote:
During her lifetime, Mother Teresa was named 18 times in the yearly Gallup's most admired man and woman poll as one of the ten women around the world that Americans admired most. In 1999, a poll of Americans ranked her first in Gallup's List of Most Widely Admired People of the 20th Century. In that survey, she out-polled all other volunteered answers by a wide margin, and was in first place in all major demographic categories except the very young.
Genetic Matrix - Mother Theresa Of Calcutta

So how is it that a mild-mannered diminutive Albanian woman created over 500 missions with 4000 nuns, 300 brothers, and 100,000 lay volunteers? By openly practicing poor hygiene, refusing to feed the starving, stealing money intended to provide for the needs of the Sisters of Charity? cupper3 would have you believe she did all these things for decades and no one discovered it until the last four years of her life. Nowhere has such widespread, persistent, and long-lived corruption ever been failed to be identified by the press. I certainly feel she made mistakes--everybody does--but cupper3 is stating uncategorically that she did all this intentionally, with malicious forethought, and is deserving of the title,
"angel from hell."

Is the press really that stupid when it would have made for a first class world wide story to uncover the same?

He's grasping at straws--and he still hasn't produced a photograph or a live witness who saw such evil from the nun herself.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,518 posts, read 2,600,972 times
Reputation: 2788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
Mother Theresa never conducted any fund raising campaigns. Rather, people sought her, or her organization out and sent money.

Evidently, Mother Theresa spent some of the money on her missions, then passed monies she felt she either did not have the infrastructure to use, or whose amounts would negatively impact the religious lives of the nuns to the Vatican to use as they saw fit.

As Mother Theresa, never directly solicited the funds, made no promises as to how they would be used other than "The Work of Christ", and kept the funds with in the same church, I don't see how she violated any fiduciary trust.
But id people were donating money for MT's work in India then surely they should expect they money to be used in India for that purpose?

It seems to me that there is no doubt she did not use the money for the intended purpose. That makes it violation of fiduciary trust.

What is not clear to me is what she actually did in India for the sick, dying and starving.

Wardendresden, I think I understand where you are coming from. Maybe cupper is inflammatory and does initiate controversial topics. But they are his threads and he does expose dirty little secrets. I'm just suggesting that cupper actually does us a service, just not in a way that appeals to you so much. You on the other hand bring balance by presenting a more moderate perspective and I appreciate that. It keeps the balance.

As I've said before, I want to know the truth. I have not come to any conclusions on MT, how can I - I don't know all the facts. I know the allegations and it does look suspicious though. She most certainly is not a saint - no way could she have performed miracle after she had passed away! That's BS. That aspect on it's own should be challenged but it's not about her at all but that's outside the topic of this thread.
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