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Old 03-20-2016, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,265 posts, read 20,872,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Seems like she suffered from extreme depression.
I think you just nailed it, TroutDude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
There is a whole thread with hundreds of posts on the main Religion & Spirituality thread.

It is quite interesting that some of those who are non-believers and wish to make MT look bad, start from the same premise for attempting to debunk her as fundamentalists do when trying to read the Bible and apply what happened thousands of years ago today.

Both take situations from long ago and make judgment on their efficacy as if both occurred in the 21st century.

Mother Theresa became a nun at eighteen. When she left home she would never again see any of her family other than a brother. She was not trained in modern hygiene. Some of her hospice centers were less than sanitary. Yet the people she brought in had been, in many cases, literally dumped near massive trash and garbage areas.

What's more, nobody criticizing her has left their home never to see family again, gone to a far away strange land with only rudimentary language skills (in the early years), set up schools (her first work in India), health centers, and hospice houses. Nobody. None of us here including me.

So let's criticize away, and forget that Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

cupper, you were left holding the bag on the other thread, too with these same criticisms. So sad to see you have as much spite in your heart that many fundamentalists have in their own. She managed to start many good things to be as wicked as you think she was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa
Amen.
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Old 03-20-2016, 04:51 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,730,063 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
I'll leave you to your sad hate and cruel judgments of a woman who personally lived like a peasant.

I see no difference between your hard line position as an atheist than that of fundamentalists about their idol. You are as into black and white views of Christians as they are about atheists and liberal Christians.

Deep in your souls you are exactly the same.

What a pity. An atheist jeffbase40.
I ask, once again, what facts you have that are opposed to those I pointed out. No or outdated medication, unsterilized needles, unsanitary conditions. You are denigrating me because of the image you have, but won't face the facts.

And your right, like Jeff. He won't face facts either. SHOW me where I am wrong, don't tell me.

If you can.

Show me.
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814
Do atheist never question their lack of faith? Am I acting faithless enough? I guess not.

Christians often question their service to God, and the ways they chose to honor Christ, especially when they have given over their lives to such a task.

Am I failing? Am I doing it right? Is God please with this? Am I really faithful? etc.

Its pretty easy to be a Christian like I am. I'm doing the best I can just trying to emulate Christ and be a nice, kind and loving person. I would imagine there is a lot of joy as well as pain in service to God.
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,582 posts, read 5,113,105 times
Reputation: 3915
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I ask, once again, what facts you have that are opposed to those I pointed out. No or outdated medication, unsterilized needles, unsanitary conditions. You are denigrating me because of the image you have, but won't face the facts.

And your right, like Jeff. He won't face facts either. SHOW me where I am wrong, don't tell me.

If you can.

Show me.
Well, in many respects you are like jeff, yourself, because I provided several links on the Religion and Spirituality thread. You are so into your fundamentalist anti God ideas that I suspect, like jeff, you never bother to read, let alone contemplate them. One of your critics has pointed out that you have started 265 threads of venom against religion (as posted in post #94 of Mother Theresa, witch, not saint. --a thread which you started on 12/18/2015). That seems excessive even for me who finds plenty to criticize in religion as practiced. But I haven't gone back and counted them as I have better things to do.

But to jog your memory, but more to allow passerbys on the forum to come to their own conclusion, let me refresh your mind (P.S. when I see such closed-mindedness I must begin posting for the benefit of others rather than with any hope of coming to an ameliorating position with the one with whom I'm trading posts):

Quote:
The poor of India apparently thought much of her:
Quote: Within 10 years she was known as "the saint of Calcutta." As she walked through the crowded streets, people would bend to touch her feet, a sign of respect in the predominantly Hindu country. It's not something she ever encouraged, Chawla says, and she would try to lift her admirers up.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...t/mother01.htm

Quote:
But even as she hobnobbed with the world's most powerful and wealthy people, Mother Teresa's priorities remained with the "the poorest of the poor." She chose to serve God by showering attention on the most destitute, most outcast, most ill members of society. And to her, serving the poor meant living like the poor, without possessions and modern comforts.

People, particularly the poor, responded to her kindness, her compassion and the fact that this single woman would reach out to them when no one else would," Navin Chawla, her official biographer, said Friday. "She reached out to destitution everywhere, no matter where they were, from AIDS patients in Los Angeles to the poor who lived under the London Bridge."
USA TODAY Latest news

Quote:
Mother Teresa and her many assistants built houses along with nursing homes; this provided hospice services for the terminal, shelter for the sick as well as a roof over the heads of many orphans all over the world. The New York Times article on her life mentions that she built places for those with leprosy and other socially shunned conditions; the care in many places was still meager but patients were jubilant to simply not be on the streets anymore.
http://www.yurtopic.com/society/peop...esa-facts.html

Look what she came from--and chose to live in poverty:

Quote:
Mother Teresa was born to a wealthy Albanian family with a father, Nikola Bojaxhiu, who was a successful merchant and a political activist.
http://www.yurtopic.com/society/peop...esa-facts.html
Finally, from a woman who spent 23 years by Mother Theresa's side here is a note about who FIRST RECOGNIZED the good she was doing. Was it the Vatican? Was it Albania seeking some recognition themselves by honoring one of their own? No, it came from Hindus.
Quote:
The early milestones lay in recognition within her adopted country – first by the legendary Chief Minister of West Bengal Dr. B.C. Roy, to be followed by national recognition when Jawaharlal Nehru was instrumental in India awarding her the Padma Shri in 1962. Later, another redoubtable Chief Minister of West Bengal, Jyoti Basu, was to provide her his unstinted support.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead...icle594123.ece

Plenty of people were upset with her--and lots of them on the religious side.

Quote:
“God loves a cheerful giver” was a refrain I would often hear as I walked with the smiling Sisters of her Order among sullen faces under London's Waterloo Bridge, serving them their only hot meal on a wintry night; in the process I saw where they spent their nights: coffin-sized cardboard boxes, their only homes. In San Francisco and Los Angeles, I talked to young AIDS sufferers in her hospices, knowing that I would never see them again. In Madrid, I met the aged and the destitute, wracked by a disease called loneliness, which Mother Teresa called the “leprosy of the West”. And then the final triumph, a centre carved in the heart of Catholicism itself, in the shadow of St. Peter's in the Vatican, handed over by a Polish Pope to an obedient but persistent nun. She (MT) appeared a frail figure against the rigid hierarchy of the Church, some of whose members frowned in private that the Vatican had hardly any space let alone for a soup kitchen (which she established with JPII). Yet, in my eyes, Mother Teresa and John Paul II had, at one stroke, demystified a thousand years of sometimes rigid Papal tradition, in an understanding of the deepest Christian ethic that they shared.

Although she herself remained fiercely Catholic, her brand of faith was not exclusive. Convinced that each person she ministered to was Christ in suffering, she reached out to people of all religions. The very faith that sustained her infuriated her detractors, who saw her as a symbol of a right-wing conspiracy and, worse, the principal mouthpiece of the Vatican's well-known views against abortion. Interestingly, such criticism went largely unnoticed in India, where she was widely revered.
Mother Teresa: a remembrance - The Hindu

The article above was written by Navin Chawla who is the former Chief Election Commissioner of India and the biographer of Mother Teresa.

In post #188 of the other thread I provided another article by an American journalist who went over and toured with Mother Theresa.

Finally, this post was made by an atheist/agnostic for whom I have much respect. And his conclusion is one that a thinking, not hating, person can easily reach:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I've been thinking about this a bit.

You're a good man, WD and a good poster. I don't mind admitting when I get it wrong and your posts have made me think that perhaps I should give Mother Theresa some consideration for good intentions, doing something when nobody else was and some good results coming out of it in the end.

I won't say any more than that right now.
Post #211, Mother Teresa, witch, not saint. Her scam perpetuated by Catholic Church (holidays, Christ[mas?])

It puzzles me that you are coming full circle back to things you have already previously started a thread concerning--and it went for 27 pages and 268 posts from people all over the spectrum. I truly am sorry that religion appears to have messed up your sense of peace, because your prolific starting threads about anti-religion and anti-God are more than I ever see started by any christian trying to grind their own stone.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 03-21-2016 at 12:12 AM..
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Old 03-21-2016, 01:26 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,730,063 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Well, in many respects you are like jeff, yourself, because I provided several links on the Religion and Spirituality thread. You are so into your fundamentalist anti God ideas that I suspect, like jeff, you never bother to read, let alone contemplate them. One of your critics has pointed out that you have started 265 threads of venom against religion (as posted in post #94 of Mother Theresa, witch, not saint. --a thread which you started on 12/18/2015). That seems excessive even for me who finds plenty to criticize in religion as practiced. But I haven't gone back and counted them as I have better things to do.

But to jog your memory, but more to allow passerbys on the forum to come to their own conclusion, let me refresh your mind (P.S. when I see such closed-mindedness I must begin posting for the benefit of others rather than with any hope of coming to an ameliorating position with the one with whom I'm trading posts):

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...t/mother01.htm

USA TODAY Latest news

http://www.yurtopic.com/society/peop...esa-facts.html

Look what she came from--and chose to live in poverty:

http://www.yurtopic.com/society/peop...esa-facts.html
Finally, from a woman who spent 23 years by Mother Theresa's side here is a note about who FIRST RECOGNIZED the good she was doing. Was it the Vatican? Was it Albania seeking some recognition themselves by honoring one of their own? No, it came from Hindus.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead...icle594123.ece

Plenty of people were upset with her--and lots of them on the religious side.

Mother Teresa: a remembrance - The Hindu

The article above was written by Navin Chawla who is the former Chief Election Commissioner of India and the biographer of Mother Teresa.

In post #188 of the other thread I provided another article by an American journalist who went over and toured with Mother Theresa.

Finally, this post was made by an atheist/agnostic for whom I have much respect. And his conclusion is one that a thinking, not hating, person can easily reach:
Post #211, Mother Teresa, witch, not saint. Her scam perpetuated by Catholic Church (holidays, Christ[mas?])

It puzzles me that you are coming full circle back to things you have already previously started a thread concerning--and it went for 27 pages and 268 posts from people all over the spectrum. I truly am sorry that religion appears to have messed up your sense of peace, because your prolific starting threads about anti-religion and anti-God are more than I ever see started by any christian trying to grind their own stone.
Your word salad has not changed the facts I asked you to address. Lots of money, right? That is not questioned, is it?

Seemingly difficult for you to address three things.

Let's deal with them one at a time. The unsterilied needles? Why? What reason for that?
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,508 posts, read 2,590,605 times
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Has this been mentioned already? The miracle for which mother Teresa is to be canonized took place in 2009 when a comatose man made a miraculous recovery after his wife prayed for him. Mother Teresa died in 1997! Now she is not responsible for this (obviously), it's the Vatican.
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:37 AM
Status: "Amused by BF." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,270 posts, read 12,056,137 times
Reputation: 10629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Has this been mentioned already? The miracle for which mother Teresa is to be canonized took place in 2009 when a comatose man made a miraculous recovery after his wife prayed for him. Mother Teresa died in 1997! Now she is not responsible for this (obviously), it's the Vatican.
Most miracles attributed to saints occur well after their deaths. The wife you mentioned above no doubt said she prayed to the spirit of Mother Teresa to entreat god to save her husband.
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:46 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,225 posts, read 50,499,962 times
Reputation: 60110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Most miracles attributed to saints occur well after their deaths. The wife you mentioned above no doubt said she prayed to the spirit of Mother Teresa to entreat god to save her husband.
I think that's part of the requirement--the claimed miracles have to take place after death.
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Old 03-21-2016, 10:08 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,730,063 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I think that's part of the requirement--the claimed miracles have to take place after death.
Well, that sure proves it for me!
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Old 03-21-2016, 12:36 PM
 
691 posts, read 755,493 times
Reputation: 475
Default Saint? Mother Teresa of Calcutta

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Anyone who had the wherewithal to raise ~$500 million on the backs of the dying and then spend the bulk on setting up missions for the nuns in her order would have the wherewithal to take medical advice. She chose not to, as i documented, because she felt the poor needed to suffer to be like Christ.

She willfully did little more than operate a warehouse for the dead and dying.




When she was ill, what happended? She herself received the best medical care possible; instead she used the exclusive Woodlands Clinic in the US and the Birla Heart Institute in Calcutta. But residents at her home for the dying in Calcutta received neither treatment nor dignity.



Not only was she negligent and fraudulently raised money, she was a liar.

I'll repeat, a liar. And she repeatedly lied.

From the book "Mother Teresa The Final Verdict"By Aroup Chatterjee comes the following:
Shortly after her Nobel, she told her friend and biographer Kathryn Spink: 'In Calcutta alone we cook for 7,000 people everyday and if one day we do not cook they do not eat.'5 This was a voracious claim - at the time the Missionary of Charity kitchens cooked for at the most 500 people a day, and that included their vast army of nuns, novices and Brothers, most of whom do not have any charitable function. The '7000 people' story was part of a fairly lengthy parable, similar to the one with 'loaves and fishes' of Jesus. Mother retold it numerous times, in various parts of the world, but never in Calcutta itself.

And:

The Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta possess a small fleet of 'ambulances', many of them donated by businesses and individuals. These vehicles are painted to appear as ambulances and are fitted with red beacons; they are exempt from traffic regulations. But their main or sole function is to provide a taxi service for the nuns. (The Calcutta registry of ambulance services never did list her fleet)







More of the truth needs to come out. This kind of of spreading of myths is EXACTLY how religions start. False and exaggerated claims are made, the greatness and the goodness of a person is magnified, and any contrary attempts at pointing out facts are bashed, poo-pooed, ridiculed and down played.

Researchers found that the vast majority of patients who had come to visit Mother Teresa’s missions for the dying had hoped to find doctors to treat them, but instead found unhygienic conditions, a shortage of care, inadequate food and no painkillers.


People are enthralled and celebrate the image of Teresa of Calcutta, not the reality.

You may not like the facts I point out, but you cannot show that they are not true.
As a CatholicI don't have any problem with your facts.That was the point of the Devil's Advocate in the cause of saints, to bring out any unpleasant truth. People might want to look up Rose Hawthorne Lathrop.She was the daughter of the author Nathanel Hawthorne. She later married and at some point in time became a catholic. Later Rose founded the Dominican Servants of St.Rose of Lima, also known as Servants of Relief for Incurable Cancer.They are mainly known by this name today. Her sisters work to provide medical care to the poor and others who have cancer.They are cared for in modern faculities and get medical care. They aren't dying in pain and squalor.Rose Hawthorne Lathrop's cause for sainthood has been put before Rome.
Yet you hear little about her. There are native indian orders who work in Mother India to help the poor,,,,,,,,,,,,yet you hear little about them. Somehow Mother Teresa managed to get the publicity other catholic religious both native and forgein never did.
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