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Old 03-31-2016, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,585 posts, read 7,049,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It sounds like a person's personal bias, or political leaning is the 'spirit' they follow.
While it is true that those who claim that the Spirit leads them but do no checking OF that Spirit by anything other than the doctrines they espouse and their interpretation of scripture are really only going by their affiliation for the doctrines they espouse. Holding an absolute standard of that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation is not that easy, and seeking confirmation or guidance from people whom we know live in that love would seem to run counter to your prejudice. Try to remember that there are several tools in the Spirit's toolkit.
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Old 03-31-2016, 07:22 PM
 
37,644 posts, read 25,331,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It sounds like a person's personal bias, or political leaning is the 'spirit' they follow.
How many times do you need to be told that the Spirit we follow is described in 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 and the Sermon on the Mount, Finn??? There is no confusion about what Spirit it is or what its characteristics are. They are quite specific and Jesus demonstrated them unambiguously by His life and especially His death. Stop pretending it is personal bias or political leanings.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,429 posts, read 4,302,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Let me try again fr you: The OP is all about the response of people who say that following the Spirit is all about "imaginings," and "unicorns and butterflies." They refuse to consider that it calls for quite reasonable discernment, and I am not talking about another "gift of the Spirit" in which you "just know," I am talking about using all of the tools with which the Spirit may communicate, including reason and verifiable information that bears on the subject. The example of that proceess given was about determining whether arbitrary rules should be used to define roles according to sex. You may not agree that capabilities and talents are not bound by sex, even though one sex shows a different balance on the whole in any particular area like bodily strength, in which women are generally weaker, but with no clear division between strong women and weak men. That is to say that many women are stronger than many men in body, so why make a rule that a woman is disquailfied from a job that requires bodily strength just because she is female and a weaker man is not disqualified?

Sounds reasonable, thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:23 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,443,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Stop pretending it is personal bias or political leanings.
That was a new one. Pulled out of thin air and a desire to devalue anything a non-fundamentalist says.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,613 posts, read 32,038,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It sounds like a person's personal bias, or political leaning is the 'spirit' they follow.
It ends up being a 'test' against ones own standards, views and bias. For example when talking about abortion, one might 'test' the issue agains the 'spirit' (his/her own bias), and declare the 'spirit' has spoken and said abortion is not a problem, because it would be unloving to deny it from the woman. The problem is the fact that the spirit didn't speak, the person used his/her 'reason' to come to the conclusion. In other words, the person followed his/her own thoughts, while the Spirit had nothing to do with it.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 03-31-2016 at 08:52 PM..
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,585 posts, read 7,049,285 times
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^If it were that simpe, you might have a point, but discernment on that issue is a lot more complicated than that.

Leave it to a fundie to dumb it down.

Just to set you on the right track: my personal take is that it would be wrong for me to have an abortion (how safe am I?) but there is no valid secular reason to deny anything but possibly third term abortion to those who don't view it the same way. For that reason it is a matter of whether anyone I come into contact who might be asking an old fart for advice would find my reasons valid. Convince, not legislate is my motto.

Last edited by nateswift; 03-31-2016 at 10:09 PM..
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:45 PM
 
37,644 posts, read 25,331,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It ends up being a 'test' against ones own standards, views and bias. For example when talking about abortion, one might 'test' the issue agains the 'spirit' (his/her own bias), and declare the 'spirit' has spoken and said abortion is not a problem, because it would be unloving to deny it from the woman. The problem is the fact that the spirit didn't speak, the person used his/her 'reason' to come to the conclusion. In other words, the person followed his/her own thoughts, while the Spirit had nothing to do with it.
The standard presented by the Spirit is not confusing or subject to bias or caprice, Finn. Killing a developing human baby in the womb does NOT consider the well-being of everyone involved, specifically the child. So it is against the standard of agape love. But that is between the Mother and God. We have no say in it whatsoever. We have no standing or authority to deny her decision. When will you realize that it is the attempt to ENFORCE God's standards using human secular law and power that is unacceptable. God will enforce His own standards. We can only enforce those that society agrees are necessary to maintain order and safety.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,613 posts, read 32,038,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
^If it were that simpe, you might have a point, but discernment on that issue is a lot more complicated than that.

Leave it to a fundie to dumb it down.

Just to set you on the right track: my personal take is that it would be wrong for me to have an abortion (how safe am I?) but there is no valid secular reason to deny anything but possibly third term abortion to those who don't view it the same way. For that reason it is a matter of whether anyone I come into contact who might be asking an old fart for advice would find my reasons valid. Convince, not legislate is my motto.
You are proving my point. It is you talking/reasoning, not the Spirit. Maybe you think your conclusions have more weight if you say "God told me that".
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,585 posts, read 7,049,285 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
^If it were that simpe, you might have a point, but discernment on that issue is a lot more complicated than that.

Leave it to a fundie to dumb it down.

Just to set you on the right track: my personal take is that it would be wrong for me to have an abortion (how safe am I?) but there is no valid secular reason to deny anything but possibly third term abortion to those who don't view it the same way. For that reason it is a matter of whether anyone I come into contact who might be asking an old fart for advice would find my reasons valid. Convince, not legislate is my motto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are proving my point. It is you talking/reasoning, not the Spirit. Maybe you think your conclusions have more weight if you say "God told me that".
Finn, you have it exactly reversed. Maybe YOU think it gives your views more weight if you say "God says this" but when it is obviously your interpretation you lose any respect for your relationship with the Spirit.
You seem to think that the only way for the Spirit to communicate is with a voice in your head, and you have NO means or desire to check that "spirit" against the known qualities OF the Spirit.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:27 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,808,990 times
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Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, if you have to kill it, it's alive. And if it's alive, it's a human, not a puppy in there. Yet from what I've seen most that would kill the first and think little of it (until later when their conscience eats them alive, which is acted out in various ways), would call the police and take a ball bat to anyone brutally murdering a puppy right in front of them.

THIS, is a perfect example of the insanity and innate CREATED INABILITY to qualify and identify the righteousness of G-d, that is the carnal mind. Peace
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