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Old 04-04-2018, 04:27 AM
 
335 posts, read 194,200 times
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Matthew 4:4
re: "Jesus died on Friday...God resurrected Jesus out of the grave on Sunday."

The Messiah said He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 nights. How do you account for the lack of a 3rd night with a Friday death/Sunday resurrection?
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:07 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,704,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Jesus died on Friday the Jewish month of Nisan the 14th day. Friday Nisan 14 would still count as one day.
Jesus still slept in the grave (Acts 2:27) on Saturday. Saturday Nisan 15 would count as one day.
God resurrected Jesus out of the grave on Sunday. Thus, Sunday Nisan 16 would count as one day.
Since it was still dark when people went to the empty tomb that ' darkness ' could have been still considered as night.
We get up after midnight and still consider that as night even though we do Not use a Lunar calendar.
I find there is No mention as to the ' amount of hours ' Jonah was in the belly of the BIG fish at Jonah 1:17.
So, it seems we do Not have to be dealing with literal 24 hour days.

Here is the 1611KJV and older Tyndale bibles state the same too,
In the ende of the Sabbath, as it began to dawne towards the first day of the weeke, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.1
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake, for the Angel of the Lord descended from heauen, and came and rolled backe the stone from the doore, and sate vpon it.2
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snowe.
4 And for feare of him, the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the Angel answered, and said vnto the women, Feare not ye: for I know that ye seeke Iesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as hee said: Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7 And goe quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead. And behold, hee goeth before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him: loe, I haue told you.
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre, with feare and great ioy, and did run to bring his disciples word.
-Dawn toward the 1st day of the week, means it is still Saturday, the Sabbath, and it states states that the Sabbath is now ending when they got to the grave and that is when they felt the earthquake and the tomb wa opened by the Angel. The other Gospels state they got there while it was still dark in the morning, so they discovered a empty tomb.

So Jesus rose as it was now considered the 1st day of the week, so there is no way we can count a few minutes or even 1-2hrs a entire day.

-Jesus died at 3pm Friday and was placed in the tomb before dark, which was probably 6pm+ back then in the spring. so we have (3-6pm (3hrs)).
-He was in the grave from that point Friday night (6pm+) to Saturday night (6pm+) when the Sabbath was ending and thats 24 hrs, which is 1 day.
-At this time is when Matthew 28 states he rose from the grave, so we have a few minutes to an hour +.

So we have Jesus in the grave for all of 27-29 hours and we are supposed to believe that is 3 days?
Friday 3hrs
Saturday 24hrs
Sunday 1hr+
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:41 AM
 
476 posts, read 121,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Here is the 1611KJV and older Tyndale bibles state the same too,
In the ende of the Sabbath, as it began to dawne towards the first day of the weeke, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.1
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake, for the Angel of the Lord descended from heauen, and came and rolled backe the stone from the doore, and sate vpon it.2
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snowe.
4 And for feare of him, the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the Angel answered, and said vnto the women, Feare not ye: for I know that ye seeke Iesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as hee said: Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7 And goe quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead. And behold, hee goeth before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him: loe, I haue told you.
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre, with feare and great ioy, and did run to bring his disciples word.
-Dawn toward the 1st day of the week, means it is still Saturday, the Sabbath, and it states states that the Sabbath is now ending when they got to the grave and that is when they felt the earthquake and the tomb wa opened by the Angel. The other Gospels state they got there while it was still dark in the morning, so they discovered a empty tomb.

So Jesus rose as it was now considered the 1st day of the week, so there is no way we can count a few minutes or even 1-2hrs a entire day.

-Jesus died at 3pm Friday and was placed in the tomb before dark, which was probably 6pm+ back then in the spring. so we have (3-6pm (3hrs)).
-He was in the grave from that point Friday night (6pm+) to Saturday night (6pm+) when the Sabbath was ending and thats 24 hrs, which is 1 day.
-At this time is when Matthew 28 states he rose from the grave, so we have a few minutes to an hour +.

So we have Jesus in the grave for all of 27-29 hours and we are supposed to believe that is 3 days?
Friday 3hrs
Saturday 24hrs
Sunday 1hr+
You believe that Jesus was crucified on Friday and resurrected on Sunday, am I correct?

As rstrats said, where is three nights? Jesus said in Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights".
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:44 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,704,700 times
Reputation: 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacecrusader888 View Post
You believe that Jesus was crucified on Friday and resurrected on Sunday, am I correct?

As rstrats said, where is three nights? Jesus said in Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights".
No, Like I have stated many times, I believe it was Wednesday. In my very 1st post I show the comparison of all 3.

14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday
17th Saturday Sabbath- No work allowed & Rose from the grave after sunset on 1st day of the week when Sabbath was over


14th Thursday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave


14th Friday Died @
3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Saturday: Dual Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Sunday
17th Monday-Rose from the Grave

Its only a Wed or Thursday that could work and fit scriptures, as Jesus death on the cross put and end to sacrifices as well.

ASSUMING JESUS LITERALLY MEANT HE MUST BE IN THE TOMB FOR 3 DAYS 3 NIGHTS
If we start the timer from 6pm ish time frame when he was put in the tomb it would be the following

WEDNESDAY Crucifixion
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Thursday 6p-6a/Thursday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/Saturday 6a-6p
Sunday 6p-
Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)

THURSDAYCrucifixion
1 NIGHT+
1 DAY
Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/
Saturday 6a-6p
Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)

FRIDAY
Crucifixion
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/Saturday 6a-6p
Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)


-Wednesday gives 3 days and 3 nights with him rising as it was the 1st day of the week, Thursday gives 2 days/2nights. Friday gives 1 day/1night, if we go by when his body was placed in the tomb.





ASSUMING JESUS MEANT 3 DAYS/3 NIGHTS AND THEY COULD MEAN ANY PART OF A DAY COUNTING AS A DAY
If we start the timer from 3pm time frame when he died on the cross it would be the following


WEDNESDAY Crucifixion
1 DAY Wednesday 3pm-6pm
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Thursday 6p-6a/Thursday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/Saturday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT Sunday 6p-
Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)
4 NIGHTS + 4 DAYS


THURSDAYCrucifixion
1 DAY Thursday 3pm-6pm
1 NIGHT+
1 DAY
Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/
Saturday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday (1hr+ later)
3 NIGHTS + 3 DAYS


FRIDAY
Crucifixion
1 DAY Friday 3pm-6pm
1 NIGHT+
1 DAY
Saturday 6p-6a/
Saturday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+later)
2 NIGHTS + 2 DAYS

-Thurdsay fits the bill and Friday is once again eliminated.



Which goes back to my OP, it takes alot of mental gymnastics used to get a Friday death and Sunday resurrection to be equal to 3 Days/3 Nights.


I personally believe it was the 1st day of the week he rose, as it was mentioned in other parts of the gospels and ALL the 1st century church fathers taught this also as well, and they would have a much better testimony, since they were alive closer to that time than we were, so I see no reason in them making that the day he rose up. As for the day he died I still go with Wed since it was the midst of the week like Daniel 9:26-27 mentioned or Thursday if any part of a day was to be counted as a day.

Daniel 9:26-27King James Version (KJV)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:38 AM
 
335 posts, read 194,200 times
Reputation: 38
Matthew 4:4,

You have a question directed to you in post #131.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
1 posts, read 79 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
No, It didn't.


Sacrifices continued for 40 years and when they ended, it was with great miracle, signs and wonders. Paul himself sacrificed after Jesus died, and sacrifice has still not ended, only animal sacrifice has ended.
The Cross did put an and for the need for the sacrifices. What Paul did was to enter into the horrible apostasy of the church in Jerusalem. Paul came to Jerusalem after having rebuked such things, and was proclaiming grace, not law. Yet? Paul gave into the pressure from the apostate legalistic Judaizers, and came within an inch of losing his life when Jews recognized Paul in the Temple. God disciplined Paul severely for such actions. Its why Paul ended up being held in chains. The Lord had wanted Paul to be in Rome, but Paul got homesick and longed for the glory days of his past.... The rest is history.


The reason the book of Hebrews was written (just before Jerusalem was destroyed) was to warn the apostate Jewish believers in Jerusalem. Hebrews 6 was a rebuke of the animal sacrifices. It was a warning to those who understood grace to stop trying to reason with the apostates... For,, they already knew too much and had hardened their hearts in their apostasy. That is why the writer of Hebrews said that it was impossible to bring them back to repentance. That, instead of wasting their time trying to reason, that the grace orientated believers should move on in what accompanies maturity and to leave the apostates be.



4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have
tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who
have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the
coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting
him to public disgrace. Hebrews 6:4-6




When Paul returned to the Temple, to enter into the ritual he was told to follow?



He was doing verse 6b!


To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again (animal sacrifice) and subjecting
him to public disgrace." (making the animal sacrifice equal to the Cross that Jesus bore!)




.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,285 posts, read 4,246,425 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneZ View Post
The Cross did put an and for the need for the sacrifices. What Paul did was to enter into the horrible apostasy of the church in Jerusalem. Paul came to Jerusalem after having rebuked such things, and was proclaiming grace, not law. Yet? Paul gave into the pressure from the apostate legalistic Judaizers, and came within an inch of losing his life when Jews recognized Paul in the Temple. God disciplined Paul severely for such actions. Its why Paul ended up being held in chains. The Lord had wanted Paul to be in Rome, but Paul got homesick and longed for the glory days of his past.... The rest is history.


The reason the book of Hebrews was written (just before Jerusalem was destroyed) was to warn the apostate Jewish believers in Jerusalem. Hebrews 6 was a rebuke of the animal sacrifices. It was a warning to those who understood grace to stop trying to reason with the apostates... For,, they already knew too much and had hardened their hearts in their apostasy. That is why the writer of Hebrews said that it was impossible to bring them back to repentance. That, instead of wasting their time trying to reason, that the grace orientated believers should move on in what accompanies maturity and to leave the apostates be.



4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have
tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who
have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the
coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting
him to public disgrace. Hebrews 6:4-6




When Paul returned to the Temple, to enter into the ritual he was told to follow?



He was doing verse 6b!


To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again (animal sacrifice) and subjecting
him to public disgrace." (making the animal sacrifice equal to the Cross that Jesus bore!)




.


You want to tell me of this Holy Spirit, there are millions upon millions claiming to have a Holy spirit, the same holy spirit of Shavuot, and believe it or not, the people claiming such a bold claim, most don't even keep Shavuot or even accept Shavuot, and yet, they think they are empowered with the same Holy spirit spoken of in the New Testament when they can't heal a single dying child..........If such millions have the same Holy spirit as was shown in the New Testament, then I can be assured that no miracles ever happened.


ESPECIALLY not by people who claim to have a gift from a feast they teach against keeping.


I mean, you can't make this stuff up.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:22 PM
 
801 posts, read 201,420 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
No, Like I have stated many times, I believe it was Wednesday. In my very 1st post I show the comparison of all 3.

14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday
17th Saturday Sabbath- No work allowed & Rose from the grave after sunset on 1st day of the week when Sabbath was over


14th Thursday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave


14th Friday Died @
3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Saturday: Dual Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Sunday
17th Monday-Rose from the Grave

Its only a Wed or Thursday that could work and fit scriptures, as Jesus death on the cross put and end to sacrifices as well.

ASSUMING JESUS LITERALLY MEANT HE MUST BE IN THE TOMB FOR 3 DAYS 3 NIGHTS
If we start the timer from 6pm ish time frame when he was put in the tomb it would be the following

WEDNESDAY Crucifixion
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Thursday 6p-6a/Thursday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/Saturday 6a-6p
Sunday 6p-
Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)

THURSDAYCrucifixion
1 NIGHT+
1 DAY
Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/
Saturday 6a-6p
Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)

FRIDAY
Crucifixion
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/Saturday 6a-6p
Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)


-Wednesday gives 3 days and 3 nights with him rising as it was the 1st day of the week, Thursday gives 2 days/2nights. Friday gives 1 day/1night, if we go by when his body was placed in the tomb.





ASSUMING JESUS MEANT 3 DAYS/3 NIGHTS AND THEY COULD MEAN ANY PART OF A DAY COUNTING AS A DAY
If we start the timer from 3pm time frame when he died on the cross it would be the following


WEDNESDAY Crucifixion
1 DAY Wednesday 3pm-6pm
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Thursday 6p-6a/Thursday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/Saturday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT Sunday 6p-
Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+ later)
4 NIGHTS + 4 DAYS


THURSDAYCrucifixion
1 DAY Thursday 3pm-6pm
1 NIGHT+
1 DAY
Friday 6p-6a/Friday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT+1 DAY Saturday 6p-6a/
Saturday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday (1hr+ later)
3 NIGHTS + 3 DAYS


FRIDAY
Crucifixion
1 DAY Friday 3pm-6pm
1 NIGHT+
1 DAY
Saturday 6p-6a/
Saturday 6a-6p
1 NIGHT Sunday 6p-Jesus rose in that transition period from Saturday to Sunday(1hr+later)
2 NIGHTS + 2 DAYS

-Thurdsay fits the bill and Friday is once again eliminated.



Which goes back to my OP, it takes alot of mental gymnastics used to get a Friday death and Sunday resurrection to be equal to 3 Days/3 Nights.


I personally believe it was the 1st day of the week he rose, as it was mentioned in other parts of the gospels and ALL the 1st century church fathers taught this also as well, and they would have a much better testimony, since they were alive closer to that time than we were, so I see no reason in them making that the day he rose up. As for the day he died I still go with Wed since it was the midst of the week like Daniel 9:26-27 mentioned or Thursday if any part of a day was to be counted as a day.

Daniel 9:26-27King James Version (KJV)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



Here is the breakdown:

Wednesday 14th - Jesus Crucified around 3pm and placed in tomb before sunset
Wednesday night - Jesus is being embalmed

Thursday 15th - Feast of Unleavened Bread - no work can be done
Thursday after sunset - Sabbath is over and now guards can be dispatched to seal the tomb.
Friday 16th - Preparation Day for Sabbath

Saturday 17 - Sabbath Day from sunrise to sunset.
Sunday 18 - rising of the sun - first day of week Jesus is risen early in the morning.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:24 PM
 
801 posts, read 201,420 times
Reputation: 42
There is a very fitting reason why the 1st day of the week was why Jesus rose. Male children were circumcised on the 8th day. This was to indicate a new day in which all the sons would be consecrated to the Father. So the first day of the week is actually a type of the this 8th day.
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:04 AM
 
335 posts, read 194,200 times
Reputation: 38
HeWillCome2040,

re: "Here is the breakdown: Wednesday 14th - Jesus Crucified around 3pm and placed in tomb before sunset Wednesday night - Jesus is being embalmed "


Wednesday night had been over some 9 hours by the time of the Messiah's death. BTW, He was crucified around 9am and not 3pm.

Also your "breakdown" includes 5 calendar days and at least parts of 4 night times and at least parts of 4 daytimes. How do you reconciled that with the scriptural account of the event?
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