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Old 03-24-2016, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That seems to be it. Just a tiddley bit of the Friday (Saturday Sabbath began at evening), Saturday and the night to dawn (half of Sunday) is counted as 3 days. It looks more like a day and half, but that is the only way you can make it "3 days".

The crucifixion was on the Friday. Change it to Wednesday and you may as well junk the whole Bible.
RESPONSE:

I believe the Gospel writers wrote 3 nights too. Do you want to explain them?
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:45 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,704,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That seems to be it. Just a tiddley bit of the Friday (Saturday Sabbath began at evening), Saturday and the night to dawn (half of Sunday) is counted as 3 days. It looks more like a day and half, but that is the only way you can make it "3 days".

The crucifixion was on the Friday. Change it to Wednesday and you may as well junk the whole Bible.
What part of 3 days/3 nights did Jesus not make clear?

Jesus understood time and Jesus knew there were twelve hours in a day; therefore He prophesied seventy-two hours in a grave (John 11:9-10).

John 11:9
9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.


The bible says he died at 3pm and he was placed in the tomb right around sunset (6pm) when it was getting dark, because the Sabbath Day Feast of Unleavened Bread was about to begin and no work could be done on that day anyways. He rose from the grave 3 days later after the sun went down Saturday night and it was the 1st day of the week and all 4 gospels agree with this too.

-Matthew 27 shows they wanted a guard there until the 3rd day

Matthew 27:62-65

Pilate Sets a Guard
62 On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, 63 saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’ 64 Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by nightand steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”
65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”


-Matthew 28 shows after the Sabbath was ending and the it was about to be the 1st day of the week the angel from heaven came and removed the stone, at this point the guards collapsed.

Matthew 28
He Is Risen
28 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door,and sat on it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.
5 But the angel answered and said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

-Luke 24 shows when they got there early at sunrise in the morning the tomb was already empty, so he rose before sunrise, so there goes the whole he rose at sunrise theory.


Luke 24

He Is Risen
24 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women[LEFT] with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. 5 Then, as they were afraid and bowed theirfaces to the earth, they said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, 7 saying, ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.’”


-Mark 16 shows when they got there at sunrise in the morning the tomb was already empty, so he rose before sunrise, so once again, there goes the whole he rose at sunrise theory.

Mark 16

He Is Risen
16 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3 And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?” 4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away—for it was very large. 5 And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed.



-John 20 shows it was dark when they got to the tomb on Sunday and the tomb was empty, so yet another gospel shows he did not rise at sunrise and was already gone

John 20
The Empty Tomb
20 Now on the first dayof the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw thathe stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2 Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”
3 Peter therefore went out, and the other disciple, and were going to the tomb. 4 So they both ran together, and the other disciple outran Peter and came to the tomb first. 5 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there;yet he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he saw and believed. 9 For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. 10 Then the disciples went away again to their own homes.


We teach Jesus was without sin, so if Jesus said he would be in the grave 3days/3nights and that is the 1 sign that he gave and would prove he was the son of God, he had to be in there the time he said (3 days/3nights), otherwise Jesus was a liar and a sinner. The bible isnt junk if the crucifixion wasnt Friday, it just means the teachings of Rome as junk if it didnt occur on Friday.
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,472 times
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We have to keep days and nights distinctly separate because Christ limited days to 12 hours, and no more.

†. John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

"this world's light" is the sun. So according to Christ, day is when the sun is up, and night is when the sun is down.

Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when days on earth consist of less than 12 normal hours of daylight, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always 12 regardless.

I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities; e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices.

So If we count Saturday night as the third night, then Friday night is the second, and Thursday night is the first; which means that Christ was buried late Thursday afternoon.

BTW: I think Judaism must be having a good laugh on Christianity because Easter 2016 is nearly a whole month ahead of Passover this year. In other words: the Christians have Christ rising from the dead before he was crucified.

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Old 03-24-2016, 07:59 PM
 
351 posts, read 283,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Matthew 12:38-40
The Scribes and Pharisees Ask for a Sign
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.



Jesus gave 1 sign and 1 sign only that he would be the Messiah and it was that he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, yet many still are teaching a Friday death and Sunday morning resurrection of 1.5 days to be equal to 3 days/3 nights, even though the Jews never counted time like that.


14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday
17th Saturday Sabbath- No work allowed & Rose from the grave after sunset on 1st day of the week when Sabbath was over


14th Thursday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave


14th Friday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset
15th Saturday: Dual Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Sunday
17th Monday-Rose from the Grave

Its only a Wed or Thursday that could work and fit scriptures, as Jesus death on the cross put and end to sacrifices as well.

Daniel 9:26-27King James Version (KJV)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Hi SAAN Interesting post but I think you make a common error. Jesus never said he would be dead for three days and nights, He said Like Noah was in the fish three days and three night he would be "in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. Noah was not dead he was surrounded and unable to get away." Jesus spoke in parables In the heart of the earth does not mean buried ,which he never was he was in a tomb, but it means surrounded and unable to get away, remember we ,mankind, are earth. Before Jesus was under God's protection no one could harm him. When He said " before Abraham, I am. " The crowd wanted to kill him but He was gone from their midst they could not find him. But now he was unable to escape because He had to die for us.


Jesus said He would come to Jerusalem, He would" be betrayed, tried, condemned, turned over to the Gentiles, and then punished and killed. So the three days and three night started when he was betrayed. That was Tuesday night when Judas went to the Sanhedrin and betrayed him ended Friday just be fore sunset with his death. So


Tuesday night----- Night One
Wednesday Day One
Wednesday night Night Two
Thursday Day Two
Thursday night Night Three
Friday Day Three


Jesus died just before sunset on Friday and rose On Saturday, The Sabbeth, Jesus is the King of ther Sabbeth. He was only dead a short time and that is why his body saw no corruption.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:33 AM
 
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Default The mental gymnastics used to get a Friday death and Sunday resurrection to be equal to 3 Days/3 Nights.

Simple question: Why does it matter??? Why does anyone care???
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Old 03-25-2016, 05:31 AM
 
34,526 posts, read 8,904,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotle's Child View Post
RESPONSE:

I believe the Gospel writers wrote 3 nights too. Do you want to explain them?
Can you perhaps give the passages and I'll have a look. Off the top of my head, I could wangle Saturday night as the first night and Sunday night (before the dawn when the tomb was found open) as the second, but that can't be made three nights, for sure.

...Sschultz above gave the passage. "40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. " If this is the only such passage, I would put it down to Matthew desperately looking for fulfilled prophecy, even if the actual events don't exactly fit. We recall how he was over -literal in his reading of Zechariah 9.9 as 2 animals when the other writers make it clear there was only one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Simple question: Why does it matter??? Why does anyone care???
Quite simply, it is about Gospel veracity and reliable reporting, if not divine inspiration. If you think it is irrelevant to Faith, then such discussions will of course be of no relevance to you.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-25-2016 at 06:00 AM..
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Old 03-25-2016, 05:47 AM
 
34,526 posts, read 8,904,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
What part of 3 days/3 nights did Jesus not make clear?

Jesus understood time and Jesus knew there were twelve hours in a day; therefore He prophesied seventy-two hours in a grave (John 11:9-10).

John 11:9
9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.


....


Clearly John is referring to the 12 hours of daylight. Nobody is going to tell me that any reckoning of hours in a day makes it 12 including the hours of night. Certainly neither Roman nor Jewish reckoning. Possibly Chinese with 2 hours between city drumbeats.

I'll look at your reckoning in the remaining post, later.

Ok. You skip over the problem and simply talk about the time of entombment on the Friday at dusk (nobody is going to tell me it was Wednesday or Thursday. It was the day of preparation before the Sabbath and that makes it Friday) and simply quote Matthew's prophecy -fulfilling three days.

Friday evening - entombment. A couple of hours of Friday as day one, at the best.
Night and sabbath day. Day two. During that day, Pilate's guard is placed.

Night -and that is Sunday - the 3rd day- to dawn when the tomb is found open.

So, if we wangle a couple of hours of Friday, as day 1 then you make make it a metaphorical 3 days. But in actual hours not a lot more than one and a half days. And as A/C says, no way that includes 3 nights. 38 hours, Maxx.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-25-2016 at 05:59 AM..
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,472 times
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A preponderance of New Testament evidence testifies that Christ revived during the third day rather than after the third day was over and done.

Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:12-21
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4

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Old 03-25-2016, 08:14 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,704,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Simple question: Why does it matter??? Why does anyone care???

Simple answer....As a Christian you are supposed to be able to defend your faith from scriptures.

If you're a Christian, you should care, because many believe in man who IS NOT the Messiah. Jesus said he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights and that was the only sign he gave that he would be the Messiah, so the important thing should be that he was dead for 3 days/ 3nights and he rose, which would fulfill his prophecy and you know for sure it was the actual son of God who rose.

If Jesus died on a Friday evening and rose on a Sunday morning, thats 1.5 days and he is not he Messiah, but actually a liar and a sinner for telling people he would be in the grave 3 days/3 nights as a sign that he was the son of God, but actually telling a lie and being in there for a day and a half.

Thats why its important and matters and why Christians should care, as many Christians are sure to make sure everyone knows Jesus was sinless, but cant even back it up and when asked to do so, respond with Why does it matter, who cares, or its not important to me.



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Old 03-25-2016, 10:20 AM
 
34,526 posts, read 8,904,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
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A preponderance of New Testament evidence testifies that Christ revived during the third day rather than after the third day was over and done.

Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:12-21
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4

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True. The dawn was the end of the Sunday night - half of Sunday. The point is that the previous day was Saturday night and evening with the crucifixion ended as Saturday began. Can you count the last of the Friday as a 'day'? It is stretching the terms to the limit, and it misses the idea of 3 days (72 hours) in the tomb.
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