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Old 03-28-2016, 10:49 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,670 posts, read 3,751,643 times
Reputation: 3935

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
From the sound of it, he sure would like one...perhaps right next to Thomas Aquinas so they can sit back and watch as "God blesses them by letting them watch the Torment of the damned". They can laugh and cheer as they watch OzzyRules and probably several past family members who missed the boat or just didn't cut it be hidiously tortured for eternity and can say things like "A little warm down there?! lol!" and "Don't worry Grandpa, only 1 minute + infinity to go!"....such fun...
And they show their true colors.......hate. They relish in the pain and suffering of others. What a hateful religion. Glad I am not part of it.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:53 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,670 posts, read 3,751,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Really?...Scripture verse please....
Here ya go

'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'
Keats
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: US
26,411 posts, read 14,007,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Here ya go

'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'
Keats
Thanks, but the point that I was trying to make was why do people say G-d said this or that when it clearly is not in their bible...
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,585 posts, read 7,049,285 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Thanks, but the point that I was trying to make was why do people say G-d said this or that when it clearly is not in their bible...
Because it is clearly consistent with the Spirit Jesus described?

Oh, and a to LargeKingCat.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:18 PM
 
Location: US
26,411 posts, read 14,007,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Because it is clearly consistent with the Spirit Jesus described?

Oh, and a to LargeKingCat.
So, ya just make it up as ya go along...
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Old 03-28-2016, 01:13 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,670 posts, read 3,751,643 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, ya just make it up as ya go along...
Not at all

There are some people, I like to call them "Biblians" who live their entire live with a relationship to a book. For anything and everything, they take a mostly literal interpretation of something written by first century writers and earlier (and not even good ones at that) and they try to twist what is written to fit their agenda.
As an aestheticist I have no relationship with any book, yet one book can potentially be as useful as any other. However Keats holds a slightly higher level of interest than most. Not that his writings are exclusive, but the point I made is that beauty and truth equal good, while evil and hate equal disorder and lies, which are bad.

Of course, it take thinking and insight to process that which our senses gather, and this is often forbidden by fundamentalist religious movements in exchange for conformity, which requires no thinking.

For the Fundie Christian, who has only a relationship to an ancient book, I offer this.....

Something I saw on a wall in Washington DC last week......


"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." Jefferson


To me, that is the same as holding onto writings such as the Bible. So much has changed in life, and we no longer need a Bible. And we do ourselves a disservice to to try to make it fit our 21st century society. We know much more than Paul knew, and why then should people hold onto Paul's interpretation of reality when it is clearly unenlightened?

But, if you are a fundamentalist, you cannot read the above paragraph because it is not in the Bible, therefore, back to the first century you go.

As for Paul, I have shown over and over again that his "visions" were nothing more than hallucinations brought about by focal seizures and impacting an angry, superstitious mind. Paul was nothing more than an egotist, who suffered not only from neurological disease but psychological disease as well. We do not accept the ramblings of a first century "mental patient" as the unique inspired word of god, which to most of us, it clearly is not, nor could it ever be.
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Old 03-28-2016, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,585 posts, read 7,049,285 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, ya just make it up as ya go along...
Are you unable to find places where Jesus describes the Spirit, and even some of the character of the Father? color me surprised.

Paul did a good job too, in 1 Cor 13 and Gal 5.
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Old 03-28-2016, 02:19 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Not at all

There are some people, I like to call them "Biblians" who live their entire live with a relationship to a book. For anything and everything, they take a mostly literal interpretation of something written by first century writers and earlier (and not even good ones at that) and they try to twist what is written to fit their agenda.
As an aestheticist I have no relationship with any book, yet one book can potentially be as useful as any other. However Keats holds a slightly higher level of interest than most. Not that his writings are exclusive, but the point I made is that beauty and truth equal good, while evil and hate equal disorder and lies, which are bad.

Of course, it take thinking and insight to process that which our senses gather, and this is often forbidden by fundamentalist religious movements in exchange for conformity, which requires no thinking.

For the Fundie Christian, who has only a relationship to an ancient book, I offer this.....

Something I saw on a wall in Washington DC last week......


"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." Jefferson


To me, that is the same as holding onto writings such as the Bible. So much has changed in life, and we no longer need a Bible. And we do ourselves a disservice to to try to make it fit our 21st century society. We know much more than Paul knew, and why then should people hold onto Paul's interpretation of reality when it is clearly unenlightened?
With that comment you just said that we no longer need God's word. However, not only does the Bible teach things which are applicable to the church today, but it contains prophecies which are to be fulfilled in the future. Prophecies we would know nothing about if they had not been recorded in writing in the books of the Bible. And as Peter stated,
1 Peter 2:2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
It is by means of God's word under the teaching ministry of God the Holy Spirit who is the true mentor that the believer in Christ Jesus grows spiritually. Jesus isn't physically on the earth today, and neither are the apostles who spoke the word of God. What we have today is the word of God set down in writing for the edification of the believer.


Quote:
As for Paul, I have shown over and over again that his "visions" were nothing more than hallucinations brought about by focal seizures and impacting an angry, superstitious mind. Paul was nothing more than an egotist, who suffered not only from neurological disease but psychological disease as well. We do not accept the ramblings of a first century "mental patient" as the unique inspired word of god, which to most of us, it clearly is not, nor could it ever be.
You have not shown any such thing. The fact that Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus was not an internally generated hallucination is evident from the fact that the men who were with Paul saw the light that Paul saw, and heard the voice although they could not understand the voice. That makes it an externally generated event. Furthermore, the Lord appeared to a man by the name of Ananias and told him to go and meet with Saul/Paul who was to be an instrument of His (Acts 9:3-17). Ananias learned from Jesus Himself that He had appeared to Paul on the Damascus road.

And if that is not enough, the Holy Spirit commanded to the church leaders at Antioch that both Barnabas and Saul/Paul be set apart for the work He for which He had called them.
Acts 13:1 Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2] While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
No, Paul did not hallucinate having seen Jesus. His encounter with the risen Jesus was real, and his later visions were from God. They were not the manifestations of a 'mental patient.'
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:21 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,670 posts, read 3,751,643 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
With that comment you just said that we no longer need God's word. However, not only does the Bible teach things which are applicable to the church today, but it contains prophecies which are to be fulfilled in the future. Prophecies we would know nothing about if they had not been recorded in writing in the books of the Bible. And as Peter stated,
1 Peter 2:2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
I have said before that the Bible is NOT "god's word" So in regards to the Bible, no, we do not need it.



You have not shown any such thing. The fact that Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus was not an internally generated hallucination is evident from the fact that the men who were with Paul saw the light that Paul saw, and heard the voice although they could not understand the voice. That makes it an externally generated event. Furthermore, the Lord appeared to a man by the name of Ananias and told him to go and meet with Saul/Paul who was to be an instrument of His (Acts 9:3-17). Ananias learned from Jesus Himself that He had appeared to Paul on the Damascus road.


No, Paul did not hallucinate having seen Jesus. His encounter with the risen Jesus was real, and his later visions were from God. They were not the manifestations of a 'mental patient.'
Recheck your facts. And yes, I have shown such thing, and many others have as well.
Put away the Bible, and start reading medical journals. The answers are there, and they are factual as well.
St Paul and temporal lobe epilepsy.

Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and Visual Phenomenon: Religion and Art

In addition, read the description of Bipolar behavior in the latest DSM-V
Excerpt here
Diagnosis Guide for Bipolar Disorder

Reread Paul's writings and look at the trends....they match up exactly to someone with Bipolar disease.

In short, Paul was a nutcase ! get over it.
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Old 03-28-2016, 04:03 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
With that comment you just said that we no longer need God's word. However, not only does the Bible teach things which are applicable to the church today, but it contains prophecies which are to be fulfilled in the future. Prophecies we would know nothing about if they had not been recorded in writing in the books of the Bible. And as Peter stated,
1 Peter 2:2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
It is by means of God's word under the teaching ministry of God the Holy Spirit who is the true mentor that the believer in Christ Jesus grows spiritually. Jesus isn't physically on the earth today, and neither are the apostles who spoke the word of God. What we have today is the word of God set down in writing for the edification of the believer.




You have not shown any such thing. The fact that Paul's encounter with the risen Jesus was not an internally generated hallucination is evident from the fact that the men who were with Paul saw the light that Paul saw, and heard the voice although they could not understand the voice. That makes it an externally generated event. Furthermore, the Lord appeared to a man by the name of Ananias and told him to go and meet with Saul/Paul who was to be an instrument of His (Acts 9:3-17). Ananias learned from Jesus Himself that He had appeared to Paul on the Damascus road.

And if that is not enough, the Holy Spirit commanded to the church leaders at Antioch that both Barnabas and Saul/Paul be set apart for the work He for which He had called them.
Acts 13:1 Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2] While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
No, Paul did not hallucinate having seen Jesus. His encounter with the risen Jesus was real, and his later visions were from God. They were not the manifestations of a 'mental patient.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Recheck your facts. And yes, I have shown such thing, and many others have as well.
Put away the Bible, and start reading medical journals. The answers are there, and they are factual as well.
St Paul and temporal lobe epilepsy.

Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and Visual Phenomenon: Religion and Art

In addition, read the description of Bipolar behavior in the latest DSM-V
Excerpt here
Diagnosis Guide for Bipolar Disorder

Reread Paul's writings and look at the trends....they match up exactly to someone with Bipolar disease.

In short, Paul was a nutcase ! get over it.
I am well aware of the facts and have already shown from Scripture that Paul's encounter with Christ was not an internally generated hallucination. You choose to ignore that fact.

Nor will I put away the Bible on the urgings of one such as yourself who holds it in so little regard.

I'll waste no more time going back and forth about it with you.
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