U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-02-2016, 08:34 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
While there is no recorded command in the New Testament scriptures for the church to worship on Sunday for the purpose of remembering the resurrection, scripture does state that Sunday worship was practiced by the early church. Acts 20:7 tells us of a church gathering on the first day of the week to break bread and to listen to Paul's message. Paul also directed that on the first day of the week money was to be set aside as each person may prosper (I Corinthians 16:2; see also Acts 11:29), And as seen from Justin Martyr, the breaking of bread, as well as monetary collections was a part of Sunday worship. As well, he states the reason why they gathered on Sunday.

JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN (A.D. 150-160).
CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRIS- TIANS.

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. [Bolding mine]

Saint Justin Martyr: First Apology (Roberts-Donaldson)
Sunday worship was practiced very early in the history of the church. The book of Acts covers the first 30 years or so of the church. There is no requirement however for the church to restrict worship to any particular day of the week.

Has nothing to do with sunday worship...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-02-2016, 08:36 PM
 
20,291 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
While there is no recorded command in the New Testament scriptures for the church to worship on Sunday for the purpose of remembering the resurrection, scripture does state that Sunday worship was practiced by the early church. Acts 20:7 tells us of a church gathering on the first day of the week to break bread and to listen to Paul's message. Paul also directed that on the first day of the week money was to be set aside as each person may prosper (I Corinthians 16:2; see also Acts 11:29), And as seen from Justin Martyr, the breaking of bread, as well as monetary collections was a part of Sunday worship. As well, he states the reason why they gathered on Sunday.

JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN (A.D. 150-160).
CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRIS- TIANS.

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. [Bolding mine]

Saint Justin Martyr: First Apology (Roberts-Donaldson)
Sunday worship was practiced very early in the history of the church. The book of Acts covers the first 30 years or so of the church. There is no requirement however for the church to restrict worship to any particular day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
Mike555,


re: "...scripture does state that Sunday worship was practiced by the early church."


Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. And they couldn't have been celebrating the resurrection because at that point they didn't believe that the Messiah had risen. The Acts reference has them together very likely in part because Paul was in town and he probably wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

How many times does the scripture have to say something for it to be true? Acts 20:7 states that they were gathering on Sunday. As was also shown, Paul had directed that monetary collections were to be done on the first day of every week. This indicates that the church was gathering on every Sunday.

And from the standpoint of extra-biblical historical evidence you can see from Justin Martyr that the church was meeting on Sunday in the 2nd century and the reason was because it was the day that Jesus rose from the dead. It's unlikely that the church in the 2nd century just suddenly decided to start Sunday worship. It is far more likely that the church had been gathering on Sunday from the beginning.

I think that's all that needs to be said on the matter and it's as much time as I care to spend on it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2016, 08:40 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
Mike555,


re: "...scripture does state that Sunday worship was practiced by the early church."


Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. And they couldn't have been celebrating the resurrection because at that point they didn't believe that the Messiah had risen. The Acts reference has them together very likely in part because Paul was in town and he probably wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
The "having a meal together" is merely setting the venue for Paul's speech...Not a worship service....Which they continued to hold Saturdays....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2016, 05:16 AM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
How many times does the scripture have to say something for it to be true? Acts 20:7 states that they were gathering on Sunday. As was also shown, Paul had directed that monetary collections were to be done on the first day of every week. This indicates that the church was gathering on every Sunday.

And from the standpoint of extra-biblical historical evidence you can see from Justin Martyr that the church was meeting on Sunday in the 2nd century and the reason was because it was the day that Jesus rose from the dead. It's unlikely that the church in the 2nd century just suddenly decided to start Sunday worship. It is far more likely that the church had been gathering on Sunday from the beginning.

I think that's all that needs to be said on the matter and it's as much time as I care to spend on it.
The existence of the Catholic Bishop of Rome (same positional authority as a Pope) Sylvester I (314-335 A.D.) who approved (for Christendom) Constantine the Great's 321 AD Edict - changing the Sabbath to Sunday also represents a dilemma for 7th Day Adventists who are teaching the lie that there was not a Bishop ahead/in charge/positional authority of The Catholic Church until 606 A.D. - History of the Change from Saturday to Sunday Worship
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2016, 05:45 AM
 
335 posts, read 194,031 times
Reputation: 38
Mike555,


re: "How many times does the scripture have to say something for it to be true?"


Once should be enough. But nowhere does scripture say that anyone met on the first of the week to practice worship, And nowhere does scripture say that "Sunday should be a reminder of Jesus' resurrection." I was merely pointing out that scripture never says anything about anyone meeting on the first day of the week in observance of the resurrection.






re: "Acts 20:7 states that they were gathering on Sunday."


The only stated reason given was to "break bread". But as I pointed out, they did that daily. And as touched on by Richard1965, the verse could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread" does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible")








re: " As was also shown, Paul had directed that monetary collections were to be done on the first day of every week. This indicates that the church was gathering on every Sunday."


As for 1 Corinthians 16:2, there is nothing in the verse that indicates a first day gathering. The text merely says that everyone should "lay by him in store" on the first day of the week. The New Swedish and Norwegian Bibles read: "At home by himself". The Lamsa Translation reads: "Let each of you put aside and keep in his house". The Weymouth reads: "Let each of you put on one side and store up at his home". Ballantine's Translation reads: "Let each of you lay up at home". The Syriac, on this passage reads: "Let every one of you lay aside and preserve at home". And the New Catholic Edition of the Bible reads: "....let each one of you put aside at home and lay up whatever he has a mind". This verse says nothing about going to church on the first day or even assembling together on the first day[SIZE=4][SIZE=4]. [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=4][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top