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Old 04-15-2016, 04:20 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 3,704,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
Dear Christians: This thread is an excellent example of why you lose people and turn people off - nitpicking about what day the crucifixion was, arguing with other people about the tenants of their own faith, pretending to have a better understanding of a religion that is foreign to you than the people who have lived it, the absolutely egotistical need to not only be RIGHT but to prove the other person WRONG (what's that saying about pride?), focusing on ridiculous details that have NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT JESUS SAID.

S.M.H.

The reason why this and similar threads have been created is that modern Christianity holds firm to a Friday crucifixion and any one with common sense that can add, knows Friday evening to Sunday morning is 1.5days and is no where near 3 days, and the specific words out of Jesus own mouth was 3 days and 3 nights in he grave.


I did a thread The mental gymnastics used to get a Friday death and Sunday resurrection to be equal to 3 Days/3 Nights. and easily proved Friday was impossible by looking at scriptures in context, yet many including some Pastors would just say what does it matter or why is it important when the proof their teaching is incorrect was laid out in detail, rather than pray for wisdom and go study the topic and issue in context themselves. Friday is all they knew and nothing could change their mind, no mater how wrong they are.

I have looked at a few facebook pages where the theme was people who think religion is evil or its a page with many Atheists and one of the main things used to make fun of Christianity is the words out of Jesus mouth from Matthew 12:38 stating he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights and the next question comes up how in the world do you get that from a Friday Evening Death and a ealry Sunday morning death. They will even post Scriptures showing Jesus was long gone before sunrise, so the heathens have more biblical knowledge than many devout Christians when you look at some of those pages.

SO this is why its important to try to correct errors in doctrines and teach the truth. If this errant teaching from Rome (Fri-Sun) was corrected back then, we would not be having this conversation now.
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,513 posts, read 2,594,433 times
Reputation: 2786
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
The reason why this and similar threads have been created is that modern Christianity holds firm to a Friday crucifixion and any one with common sense that can add, knows Friday evening to Sunday morning is 1.5days and is no where near 3 days, and the specific words out of Jesus own mouth was 3 days and 3 nights in he grave.
How do you know Jesus actually said "three days and three nights"?
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:39 PM
 
37,508 posts, read 25,243,901 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
They may be correct about their religion but they are incorrect about the Messiah they SHOULD have been looking for. Their fixation on a worldly King is why they missed Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I just love it when a Christian tells a Jew that he is not correct about his own religion...lol...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No, Richard, that is who their expectations and traditional beliefs conditioned them to look for. They selected those scriptures that comported with their expectations and interpreted them accordingly. That is why they were wrong and rejected Jesus.
They tried to use the scriptures as predictions instead of prophecy. That is divination and is NOT allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So what scriptures represent Jesus?....
The ones that Jesus fulfilled after the fact. Prophecy is only to be interpreted after the fact, not proactively. Because they had expectations of their own making about what to look for (predictions) they missed the one who actually came (after the fact) and fulfilled prophecy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
You're just as guilty, Mystic, with posts like this.
I did not tell him he was wrong about his religion. But, come on, missing the Messiah because of human-derived expectations about a worldly King to defeat the Romans is a major flub.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:03 PM
 
4,573 posts, read 2,268,956 times
Reputation: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
How do you know Jesus actually said "three days and three nights"?
Didn't the Jewish day of Nisan the 14th begin at Sundown?____ The Passover ( Last Supper ) was held Friday after Sundown. Jesus was dead by about 3 0'clock on that same day of Friday, Nisan the 14th.
That leaves parts of Friday, all of Saturday and parts of Sunday.- Matthew 12:40
The fact that the Jewish priests understood Sunday (as the third day) is shown in why they wanted Pilate to make sure Jesus' grave was secure until the third day - Matthew 27:62-66; 28:1-6 - they understood what Jesus was saying.

There is also the scriptural example at 1st Kings 12:5,12 - " go away for three days "
Again, in Bible speak, Not counting three full 24-hr. days, but a portion of those three days when the people came back to him on the ' third day '.

Jonah did Not necessarily have to be in the belly of the BIG fish for a solid-full three days to be counted as three days.

I have heard co-workers who leave work at Friday lunch time referring to a 3-day weekend.
I have heard No one say that they were wrong in saying they had a 3-day weekend.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,513 posts, read 2,594,433 times
Reputation: 2786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
I have heard co-workers who leave work at Friday lunch time referring to a 3-day weekend.
I have heard No one say that they were wrong in saying they had a 3-day weekend.
The difference is they did not draw up a religious book and found a new religion on it. After all, don't we talk of a theory when we actually mean hypothesis? Raining cats and dogs doesn't literally mean ....
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,513 posts, read 2,594,433 times
Reputation: 2786
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
They tried to use the scriptures as predictions instead of prophecy. That is divination and is NOT allowed.
Prediction - A statement of what will happen in the future.
Prophecy - A prediction, especially one made by a prophet or under divine inspiration.

A prophecy is a prediction. Consuming magic mushrooms or smoking pot before making the 'prophesy' does not change the meaning of the word.

Hey, I didn't invent the English language.
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:49 PM
 
37,508 posts, read 25,243,901 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
They tried to use the scriptures as predictions instead of prophecy. That is divination and is NOT allowed.
The ones that Jesus fulfilled after the fact. Prophecy is only to be interpreted after the fact, not proactively. Because they had expectations of their own making about what to look for (predictions) they missed the one who actually came (after the fact) and fulfilled prophecy.
I did not tell him he was wrong about his religion. But, come on, missing the Messiah because of human-derived expectations about a worldly King to defeat the Romans is a major flub.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Prediction - A statement of what will happen in the future.
Prophecy - A prediction, especially one made by a prophet or under divine inspiration.
A prophecy is a prediction. Consuming magic mushrooms or smoking pot before making the 'prophesy' does not change the meaning of the word.
Hey, I didn't invent the English language.
The definitions only address what is done. The difference resides in HOW they are applied. Predictions are applied prospectively and establish expectations a priori. Prophecies are applied after the fact and are only validated as prophecy by the future acts that actually occur.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,513 posts, read 2,594,433 times
Reputation: 2786
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Predictions are applied prospectively and establish expectations a priori. Prophecies are applied after the fact and are only validated as prophecy by the future acts that actually occur.
But that makes prophesy nothing more than twisting what was written in the past into fitting some later event.

Making Nostradamus' 'prophesies' come true is easy. I challenge anyone to interpret his writings (or were they word salad ramblings) into a meaningful prophesy of something yet to come then seeing if it happens.

One could take Revelations and find something that 'prophesied' recent events, like WWI and WWII. The problem then becomes determining which event was actually 'prophesied'. Did the 'interpreted prophesy' refer to WWI or WWII? Or was it the conquests of Genghis Khan?
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:43 PM
 
37,508 posts, read 25,243,901 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The definitions only address what is done. The difference resides in HOW they are applied. Predictions are applied prospectively and establish expectations a priori. Prophecies are applied after the fact and are only validated as prophecy by the future acts that actually occur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
But that makes prophesy nothing more than twisting what was written in the past into fitting some later event.
That is always possible and is probably unavoidable, That is why faith is so problematic.
Quote:
Making Nostradamus' 'prophesies' come true is easy. I challenge anyone to interpret his writings (or were they word salad ramblings) into a meaningful prophesy of something yet to come then seeing if it happens.
One could take Revelations and find something that 'prophesied' recent events, like WWI and WWII. The problem then becomes determining which event was actually 'prophesied'. Did the 'interpreted prophesy' refer to WWI or WWII? Or was it the conquests of Genghis Khan?
You will get no disagreement from me about any of this, but the proper application of prophecy is the opposite of prediction or divination. How much it matters to you is a function of your faith.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,094,834 times
Reputation: 12891
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
The reason why this and similar threads have been created is that modern Christianity holds firm to a Friday crucifixion and any one with common sense that can add, knows Friday evening to Sunday morning is 1.5days and is no where near 3 days, and the specific words out of Jesus own mouth was 3 days and 3 nights in he grave.


I did a thread The mental gymnastics used to get a Friday death and Sunday resurrection to be equal to 3 Days/3 Nights. and easily proved Friday was impossible by looking at scriptures in context, yet many including some Pastors would just say what does it matter or why is it important when the proof their teaching is incorrect was laid out in detail, rather than pray for wisdom and go study the topic and issue in context themselves. Friday is all they knew and nothing could change their mind, no mater how wrong they are.

I have looked at a few facebook pages where the theme was people who think religion is evil or its a page with many Atheists and one of the main things used to make fun of Christianity is the words out of Jesus mouth from Matthew 12:38 stating he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights and the next question comes up how in the world do you get that from a Friday Evening Death and a ealry Sunday morning death. They will even post Scriptures showing Jesus was long gone before sunrise, so the heathens have more biblical knowledge than many devout Christians when you look at some of those pages.

SO this is why its important to try to correct errors in doctrines and teach the truth. If this errant teaching from Rome (Fri-Sun) was corrected back then, we would not be having this conversation now.
Okay...and? What has changed? How is Christianity now different? How is the message of Christianity now different?

Jesus was not born on December 25th. Everyone knows this. Christianity did not end. People didn't flee in droves.

If Good Friday and Easter Sunday are observance days but not actually the days that Jesus was crucified, died, and rose - what happens? What changes? Do you think this knowledge will bring more people to Christianity? Will it make Christians better Christians?

Are you proud of yourself?

Didn't Jesus say something about worrying about the letter of the law while missing the spirit of it? Because that is exactly what is happening here - you are caring about the letter, and your own pride, than you care one bit about the spirit. That is one of the many things that drive people from fundamentalist Christianity specifically, and Christianity in general - this type of arrogance and fussy study of the words (while conveniently ignoring other people's evidence that destroys other widely held beliefs, but that's a whole other thread...) that misses the point of the message.
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