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Old 05-02-2016, 09:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Well. Three days and three nights (Matthew and nobody else) looks like one day ( 24 hours or 12 daylight hours makes no difference) plus three nights of 12 -hour dark.

The 'third day' (Luke) could indeed count in part of a day from 3 pm. as you say. It doesn't quite work for me as a day of 'three days and three nights'. But if you say it does, then the problem is removed. Friday counts as one of those 'days'.

Friday isn't mentioned of course. but Sunday (effectively) is as the 'First day of the week'. One night, and perhaps sunrise (1).
The day before looks like the Saturday Sabbath. One night of Jesus in the tomb and one day of a guard being posted.
Thus the day before (crucifixion) is the day of preparation - Friday and one 'day' if you count the last few hours.

Two nights; two days. That's why an extra day that isn't actually mentioned in the story has to be fiddled in as a 'Passover' Sabbath (on Friday) to push the crucifixion to Thursday. Then you get three days and three nights.

The problem there is that Cleophas in Luke is talking (Sunday morning) about the third day since the arrest, trial and crucifixion which being on the Thursday would be (seen from Sunday morning) the FOURTH day. So Luke contradicts an Extra Sabbath and the crucifixion being pushed back to Thursday.

That means that the crucifixion was on a Friday. Unless you say that Luke was wrong.

(1) some insist that 'Dawn' meant the start of the new day which would effectively be Saturday evening as Sunday was starting. I don't mind: it just means less time in the tomb than if Jesus has all Sunday night to kip.
Why are you so set on the book of Luke? There are 4 gospels, so compared them all side by side to get a complete clue. Luke comes from more of a Gentile perspective and Matthew from more of a Hebraic perspective, and since the bible is a Hebrew book, I would think Matthew goes into more detail.

Just look at Matthew details:

Matthew 28:1-2
28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

- Matthew is actually describing when he rose and it clearly states it was when the Sabbath was ending and now going to the 1st day of the week, so even if they considered 6:01pm Sunday back then if they had clocks, there is no way we can say those few minutes or 1 hour tops is conspired a whole day.


Mark 16:1-2
16 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

-In Mark, they arrived when the Sabbath was over to find the tomb empty.


Luke 24:1
24 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

-In Luke, they arrived hours later when the Sabbath was over to find the tomb empty.


John 20:1
20 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

-In John, they arrived when the Sabbath was over to find the tomb empty.

Jesus died on Wed @ 3pm and was placed in the tomb right before sundown Around 6pm, so:
Thursday 6pm - Thursday 6am 1 Night
Thursday 6am - Thursday 6pm 1 Day

Friday 6pm - Friday 6am 2 Nights
Friday 6am - Friday 6pm 2 Days

Saturday 6pm- Saturday 6am 3 Nights
Saturday 6am- Sunday 6pm 3 Days

Jesus has now been in the grave 3 days and 3 nights or 3 full days like he said he would have been and rises as Saturday is ending and now Sunday.

-------
If and a BIG 'IF" , they actually counted any part of a day as a full day back then, so that 1-2 hrs of Thursday would be counted as a day.

Thursday 3pm - Thursday 6pm 1 Day: when he died to when he was placed in the tomb than day

Friday 6pm - Friday 6am 1 Night
Friday 6am - Friday 6pm 2 Days

Saturday 6pm- Saturday 6am 2 Nights
Saturday 6am- Sunday 6pm 3 Days

Sunday 6pm- Resurrection 3 Nights

That is the only was you can get 3 days out of a Thursday crucifixion.
-------


Once again this rules out Friday, as it is barely even 2 days, and more than like 1.5 days, but going by Matthew that he rose as the Sabbath was ending and was placed in the tomb according to all the gospels a few hours after he died, a Friday Crucifixion puts Jesus in the grave for 24-26 hours.

Friday 3pm - Friday 6pm 1 Day: Placed in the tomb before the Sabbath began.

Saturday 6pm- Saturday 6am 1 Night
Saturday 6am- Sunday 6pm 2 Days

Sunday 6pm- Resurrection 2 Nights


and what is taught by churches now, the magical 26 hours that are equal to 3 days.

Friday 3pm - Friday 6pm 1 Day: Placed in the tomb before the Sabbath began. (1-2 hrs)
Saturday 6pm- Saturday 6pm 2 Days
Sunday 6pm- Resurrection 3 Days: He rose shortly after the sunset (1-2hrs) according to Matthew and the other 3 gospels found the tomb empty hours later.
------------




So this still goes to show that Friday is impossible and it was either Wednesday or Thursday depending on how they looked at time.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:55 AM
 
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I keep on about Luke (as compared with Matthew) because Matthew only works (as argued in your post above) if you add in an extra Sabbath to push the crucifixion back to Thursday. But Luke contradicts that theory and that is why you must either discard a two - day Sabbath or Luke. Mark and John are no help here, so I don't refer to them.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Well. Three days and three nights (Matthew and nobody else) looks like one day ( 24 hours or 12 daylight hours makes no difference) plus three nights of 12 -hour dark.

The 'third day' (Luke) could indeed count in part of a day from 3 pm. as you say. It doesn't quite work for me as a day of 'three days and three nights'. But if you say it does, then the problem is removed. Friday counts as one of those 'days'.

Friday isn't mentioned of course. but Sunday (effectively) is as the 'First day of the week'. One night, and perhaps sunrise (1).
The day before looks like the Saturday Sabbath. One night of Jesus in the tomb and one day of a guard being posted.
Thus the day before (crucifixion) is the day of preparation - Friday and one 'day' if you count the last few hours.

Two nights; two days. That's why an extra day that isn't actually mentioned in the story has to be fiddled in as a 'Passover' Sabbath (on Friday) to push the crucifixion to Thursday. Then you get three days and three nights.

The problem there is that Cleophas in Luke is talking (Sunday morning) about the third day since the arrest, trial and crucifixion which, had it been on the Thursday, would be (seen from Sunday morning) the FOURTH day. So Luke contradicts an Extra Sabbath and the crucifixion being pushed back to Thursday.

That means that the crucifixion was on a Friday. Unless you say that Luke was wrong.

(1) some insist that 'Dawn' meant the start of the new day which would effectively be Saturday evening as Sunday's was starting. I don't mind: it just means less time in the tomb than if Jesus has all Sunday night to kip.
Luke did not mention passover but he talked about Sabbath and preparation. Mathew explained further that there was a passover apart from the Sabbath. So it's not possible to have killed Christ on Friday and Saturday as they were feast days and the rulers will face a backlash.

The window for his death was limited to Wednesday and Thursday. If he had died on Wednesday, then raising up on Sunday would have meant 4 days and 4 nights and he would not have been the one.

I want you to understand that several things went on during the Lord's passover dinner. Judas at a stage did not want to betray him. Our Lord noticed that and commanded him to do that thing that he must do, bringing back the betrayal spirit.

The last passover was celebrated only with the disciples. No other groups celebrated the passover on that day. Our Lord, being God knew he would not be around to celebrate the feast with them, so he celebrated it earlier. The preparation in Luke was actually a preparation for the passover, not the Sabbath. The way it was written, a casual reader would assume it was Sabbath preparation. Indeed it was not. The passover kicked off the week long feast.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Luke did not mention passover but he talked about Sabbath and preparation. Mathew explained further that there was a passover apart from the Sabbath. So it's not possible to have killed Christ on Friday and Saturday as they were feast days and the rulers will face a backlash.

The window for his death was limited to Wednesday and Thursday. If he had died on Wednesday, then raising up on Sunday would have meant 4 days and 4 nights and he would not have been the one.

I want you to understand that several things went on during the Lord's passover dinner. Judas at a stage did not want to betray him. Our Lord noticed that and commanded him to do that thing that he must do, bringing back the betrayal spirit.

The last passover was celebrated only with the disciples. No other groups celebrated the passover on that day. Our Lord, being God knew he would not be around to celebrate the feast with them, so he celebrated it earlier. The preparation in Luke was actually a preparation for the passover, not the Sabbath. The way it was written, a casual reader would assume it was Sabbath preparation. Indeed it was not. The passover kicked off the week long feast.

Remember he died at 3pm, so if he was placed in the tomb right before sunset, that would be from 6pm Wednesday to 6pm Saturday, a full 3 days and 3 nights (Thursday, Friday, Saturday) and he rose right when the sun went down Saturday and now Sunday, so he did fulfill the 3days/3nights in the tomb.

Matthew 28:1-2
28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Remember he died at 3pm, so if he was placed in the tomb right before sunset, that would be from 6pm Wednesday to 6pm Saturday, a full 3 days and 3 nights (Thursday, Friday, Saturday) and he rose right when the sun went down Saturday and now Sunday, so he did fulfill the 3days/3nights in the tomb.

Matthew 28:1-2
28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
This is why Wednesday does not work:

Wednesday 3pm to Wednesday 6pm =1day
Wednesday 6pm to Thursday 6am=1 night
Thursday 6am to Thursday 6pm=1 day
Thursday 6pm to Friday 6am= 1night
Friday 6am to Friday 6pm=1 day
Friday 6pm to Saturday 6am =1 night
Saturday 6am to Saturday 6pm =1 day
Saturday 6pm to Sunday 6am=1 night

Total:*4days, 4 nights. He would not have been the one.

Sabbath was stated, the key being e d of Sabbath plus start of new day @6am by Jewish reckoning at the time
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Old 05-02-2016, 03:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
This is why Wednesday does not work:

Wednesday 3pm to Wednesday 6pm =1day
Wednesday 6pm to Thursday 6am=1 night
Thursday 6am to Thursday 6pm=1 day
Thursday 6pm to Friday 6am= 1night
Friday 6am to Friday 6pm=1 day
Friday 6pm to Saturday 6am =1 night
Saturday 6am to Saturday 6pm =1 day
Saturday 6pm to Sunday 6am=1 night

Total:*4days, 4 nights. He would not have been the one.

Sabbath was stated, the key being e d of Sabbath plus start of new day @6am by Jewish reckoning at the time
He said he would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights, so when he died at 3pm, it doesnt count because he was still on the cross. He wasnt placed in the tomb until around 6pm Wednesday and he rose as the sun was going down Saturday 6pm, which would have been Sunday.

Wednesday 3pm he dies and is placed in the tomb a few hours later, probably around 6pm before the Sabbath (Feast of Unleavened Bread) on Thursday begins where no work cab be done .

Wednesday 6pm to Thursday 6am=1 night
Thursday 6am to Thursday 6pm=1 day
Thursday 6pm to Friday 6am= 2nights
Friday 6am to Friday 6pm=2 days
Friday 6pm to Saturday 6am =3 nights
Saturday 6am to Saturday 6pm =3 days

Saturday 6pm as sun sets turns to Sunday and he rises (Matt 28:1-2), so he fulfilled the 3 whole days.

There is no Saturday 6pm to Sunday 6am, the early morning dawn resurrection is false and just when they found the tomb empty. He did rise on Sunday, but when the Sabbath just ended, so kinda like 12:01am now in our times would be considered the next day if I said something was happened as Saturday was ending.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Luke did not mention passover but he talked about Sabbath and preparation. Mathew explained further that there was a passover apart from the Sabbath. So it's not possible to have killed Christ on Friday and Saturday as they were feast days and the rulers will face a backlash.

The window for his death was limited to Wednesday and Thursday. If he had died on Wednesday, then raising up on Sunday would have meant 4 days and 4 nights and he would not have been the one.

I want you to understand that several things went on during the Lord's passover dinner. Judas at a stage did not want to betray him. Our Lord noticed that and commanded him to do that thing that he must do, bringing back the betrayal spirit.

The last passover was celebrated only with the disciples. No other groups celebrated the passover on that day. Our Lord, being God knew he would not be around to celebrate the feast with them, so he celebrated it earlier. The preparation in Luke was actually a preparation for the passover, not the Sabbath. The way it was written, a casual reader would assume it was Sabbath preparation. Indeed it was not. The passover kicked off the week long feast.
Well, I agree that Wednesday - indeed Thursday - for a crucifixion would be four days if the resurrection was on Sunday - which the gospels say it was. Luke doesn't mention the Passover towards the end, but he does say (on Sunday) that it was the third day since the trial. Which it is, if you count Friday afternoon and Sunday night as the first and third day. this is quite simple and I wonder why I have to keep saying it.

SAAN, you can keep repeating the timescale starting on a Wednesday, but Luke says plainly that it was the third day,on Sunday.Midday. From Wednesday, it would be the fifth.

Incidentally,you talk off Jesus being put in the tomb on the Wednesday night just started, which means you put the crucifixion on a Tuesday?
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Old 05-04-2016, 12:59 AM
 
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Let's see how your Friday checks since you fail to aggregate all the synoptic gospels to understand what happened.


Friday 3pm to Friday 6pm=1 day
Friday 6pm to Saturday 6am =1 night
Saturday 6am to Saturday 6pm =1day

By your logic, I get only 2 days and 1 night.

This is the false foundation of the so called Christian churches, who also hope they will be raptured.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Let's see how your Friday checks since you fail to aggregate all the synoptic gospels to understand what happened.


Friday 3pm to Friday 6pm=1 day
Friday 6pm to Saturday 6am =1 night
Saturday 6am to Saturday 6pm =1day

By your logic, I get only 2 days and 1 night.

This is the false foundation of the so called Christian churches, who also hope they will be raptured.
And how do you substantiate that claim in view of Luke's remark that Sunday near midday was the third day since the trial and crucifixion happened? Plus the four gospels read as theough it was three days"

Day of crucifixion (day of preparation)
Day in the tomb (Sabbath)
day of resurrection (first day of the week - Sunday.

I agree it does not add up to three days and three nights, but that is why you are all jumping through hoops and trying to fiddle in extra days that the Gospels don't mention and Luke positively discounts, simply to make this one Prophecy of Matthew's work.

It is futile to try to save Matthew's innerrancy, because we already know that he blundered over the 'Two donkeys'.
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
And how do you substantiate that claim in view of Luke's remark that Sunday near midday was the third day since the trial and crucifixion happened? Plus the four gospels read as theough it was three days"

Day of crucifixion (day of preparation)
Day in the tomb (Sabbath)
day of resurrection (first day of the week - Sunday.

I agree it does not add up to three days and three nights, but that is why you are all jumping through hoops and trying to fiddle in extra days that the Gospels don't mention and Luke positively discounts, simply to make this one Prophecy of Matthew's work.

It is futile to try to save Matthew's innerrancy, because we already know that he blundered over the 'Two donkeys'.

It doesnt even add up to 2 days either. Jesus rose right when they sun went down Saturday night and it was now Sunday, so it is utterly ridiculous to say the 1 hour or so when he rose equals a day, the 1 hour he was in the tomb before the sun went down equals a day and all of Saturday makes everything equal 3 days.

That is 26-28 hours tops and not matter how you try to count it it isnt and will never be 3 days or even 2 days.

We celebrate Friday to Sunday because many know nothing about the Feast Days and how they work and that they are considered Sabbaths as well and the Preparation Days for for Unleavened Bread, not Saturday and that they came to a empty grave on Sunday morning, NOT that Jesus rose at dawn Sunday. Its just a false teaching that has been passed down people just accepted it until this technology age where you have much easier access to older writings and details in history than in the past.
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