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Old 03-29-2016, 04:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
I wasn't going to go here as there simply aren't enough people in religion that could get this or care.. Jesus gathered his boys on Tuesday possible within the start of Passover at sunset. He was crucified on Passover Wed. Now Wed .sundown to Sat. Sundown equals three days via Hebrew theology and history. Consequently it appears Jesus rose from the dead on the cusp of the end of His Sabbath!!! Saturday evening BUT discovered risen on Sunday ( which the church erroneously abids by) We as a church never got it right. As Constantine destroyed our hebrew roots, tossed our the Hebrew calendar and put the church on a tailspin of errors so numerous it nolonger pays to go there as neither the pastors or flock can wrap their brains around chronology 101. We are a bunch of theology saps me included , but escaping the bondage of religion gone weird. The only contradiction to my point is Ananias and Nicodemus were concerned about preparing Christ's body for the tomb ( aloe and many pounds of myr etc cloth wrap) on Sabbath ,but possible those concerns were the ramifications of rabbinical law and punishment ? Some say there were two Sabbath's in that week perhaps someone explain and instuct me? Also in the case of a death preparation defined as "work" under the law???

Sorry. I see no valid reason to accept any chronology other than:
First day of the week (Sunday) resurrection (any time from evening to dusk, as Richard'65 says)
before that Sabbath, when they rested. Matthew says that the guard was requested the next day after the day of preparation. That doesn't say how long the Sabbath was. If it was a Sabbath because of Passover, one could make a case for more than one day.
John saying that it was a special Sabbath suggests that the day of the Passover meal was on a Saturday (Sabbath of Sabbaths) but so far as I know it is still just the one day (of the Passover meal) when one 'rests'.
Further, I don't believe this was at Passover anyway, so the Sabbath has to be the Saturday.
Thus the preceding day of preparation is Friday. So blame Constantine all you like, it still looks to me like Friday crucifixion, Saturday Sabbath, Sunday resurrection. Three days only metaphorically and two nights, only. Matthew's prophecy fails.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:08 AM
 
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Has anyone brought up the point that the Passover was celebrated by the Jewish Lunar Calendar and not by our Gregorian Calendar? The Passover was always celebrated on the full moon of Nisan. Which by the Gregorian Calendar wouldn't be on the same day every year. Sometimes, not even the same month.
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Old 03-29-2016, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 292,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I am aware that in Jewish reckoning Sunday began on the dusk of the Sabbath, and that when the Marys discovered the tomb open at dawn it was half -way through Sunday, the first day of the week. I don't see that it makes any difference to the crucifixion being on the Friday and having to be concluded before the arrival of Saturday in the evening.

This seems as plain as a pikestaff and I do not understand the fiddling that goes on trying to make it Wednesday or some other day.

P.s I am fine with those who don't care or 'interpret' it to mean whatever they want. I'm jut sort a bod who reads what the Bible says, rather than rewrite it to make it say what I want.
RESPONSE: So are you saying that Jesus spent only Friday night and Saturday night in the tomb? It makes the question easier if one uses the simple fact that it is dark at night.

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 03-29-2016 at 09:59 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Perhaps, though the rising was perhaps on the Sunday before Dawn. Still just a day and a half, though. Yes, I can see why some need to alter the crucifixion day to make it 3 days and three nights, but in disregarding the text, I think more is lost than gained.
You are still thinking in a solar calendar 24 hour day...The writers were Jews and reckoned a day a 12 hours and a night as 12 hours...And dawning as merely the beginning of a day which would not necessarily imply daylight as we think of dawning today in our culture...
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:15 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Mark 16.2. The sun was about to rise. In any case it makes sense that the women would go to the tomb when it was light enough to see what they were doing. If you want to say that they did it in the small hours or even as soon as it was evening after the Sabbath, you can. That only means that Jesus was more like only one day in the tomb.

Apart from what Mark says (and that may be hos own addition) the subsequent activity with the women galloping to tell the disciples and Cleophas setting off for Emmaeus rather looks like this was all on the Sunday morning.

No, the gospels do not say Friday, Saturday or Sunday. They say

day of preparation
sabbath
First day of the week.

First day being Sunday, that makes the Sabbath Saturday (as one would expect) and thus the day of preparation, Friday,when the crucifixion was done.
But they found the tomb already empty...
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Has anyone brought up the point that the Passover was celebrated by the Jewish Lunar Calendar and not by our Gregorian Calendar? The Passover was always celebrated on the full moon of Nisan. Which by the Gregorian Calendar wouldn't be on the same day every year. Sometimes, not even the same month.
Only (perhaps in another 'resurrection' thread) that Passover was in the spring. I don't see that it makes much difference anyway, because, whether the Seder was eaten on the Friday (as the last Supper is supposed to be) or it was on the next day, after the lambs (including Jesus) were sacrificed) the resurrection is said to be on the First day of the week (Sunday - whether at evening or at dawn) and the 'Sabbath' looks like the day before and the crucifixion clearly on the day before that (Friday).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotle's Child View Post
RESPONSE: So are you saying that Jesus spent only Friday night and Saturday night in the tomb? It makes the question easier if one uses the simple fact that it is dark at night.
If one buys the timeline above rather than inserting a Friday Passover "sabbath" (thus making the crucifixion on Thursday) then yes, the gospels say that Jesus was put in the tomb on Saturday night, was there during the Saturday and rose either at evening (Sunday or Dawn, 12 hours later.

In which care one day or one and a half days in the tomb, and one or two nights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You are still thinking in a solar calendar 24 hour day...The writers were Jews and reckoned a day a 12 hours and a night as 12 hours...And dawning as merely the beginning of a day which would not necessarily imply daylight as we think of dawning today in our culture...
Quite clearly I am not. I am well aware of the 12 hours of dark and 12 hours of daylight just as today - except that Jewish reckoning began the new day at evening as soon as three stars became visible. While the Gospel writers were not Jews (I would bet my pension on that), I think that they could be using a story that could have Jewish origins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
But they found the tomb already empty...
Yes. The four agree on that, at least. It means that Jesus either rose during the Sunday before dawn (one and a half days in the tomb), some time after Sunday began at evening (just over one day) or some time during Saturday (give or take the tomb guard or the Saturday night before the guard was posted. So not even a day in the tomb.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-30-2016 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,508 posts, read 2,589,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You are still thinking in a solar calendar 24 hour day...The writers were Jews and reckoned a day a 12 hours and a night as 12 hours...And dawning as merely the beginning of a day which would not necessarily imply daylight as we think of dawning today in our culture...
That's a bit confusing. A day is 12 hours and a night 12 hours. The new day does not start in the evening. The new night begins in the evening. The new day starts in the morning, right after dawn or first light.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:39 AM
 
741 posts, read 270,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Has anyone brought up the point that the Passover was celebrated by the Jewish Lunar Calendar and not by our Gregorian Calendar? The Passover was always celebrated on the full moon of Nisan. Which by the Gregorian Calendar wouldn't be on the same day every year. Sometimes, not even the same month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Only (perhaps in another 'resurrection' thread) that Passover was in the spring. I don't see that it makes much difference anyway, because, whether the Seder was eaten on the Friday (as the last Supper is supposed to be) or it was on the next day, after the lambs (including Jesus) were sacrificed) the resurrection is said to be on the First day of the week (Sunday - whether at evening or at dawn) and the 'Sabbath' looks like the day before and the crucifixion clearly on the day before that (Friday).
Nisan 14 is the day for Passover. This Year that date started on Wed after sunset. Nisan 14 continues until the next sunset, for us sunset Thursday. Nisan 15 starts sunset Thursday and ends sunset Friday. Nisan 16 starts Friday at sunset and ends Saturday at sunset.

Jesus was died at 3PM Nisan 14 and was raised early morning Nisan 16.

Nisan 14 dead after 3PM (this year that's 3PM our Thursday but Passover started our Wed.)
Nisan 15 dead
Nisan 16 dead until early morning (our Saturday)

Jesus was dead on three days. This year on the Gregorian Calendar it appears as Thur, Fri and Sat. Last year Nisan 14 fell on Friday-Saturday. That means last year the anniversary of Jesus death by the Gregorian calendar was Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Died Saturday and raised our Monday.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
What difference does it really make?
It doesn't.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,239 posts, read 4,228,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
That's a bit confusing. A day is 12 hours and a night 12 hours. The new day does not start in the evening. The new night begins in the evening. The new day starts in the morning, right after dawn or first light.


The day begins at 6 p.m. at the sacrifice.


There is a question when the first day of the week begins and what Jews consider the Sabbaths of the Passover week.


The day of Passover Sabbath{not the first day of an average week}, the next day is the first day of the week no matter what day it is. You begin counting the omer on the first day of 7 weeks counting the omer. Then there is the weekly Sabbaths but there is some confusion when the first day of the week of omer begins. 7 weeks of counting and every week has a first day that is not Sunday.


The Jews had very many Sabbaths that most Christians are not aware of and the day indeed begins in the eve.
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