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Old 03-30-2016, 12:21 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Nisan 14 is the day for Passover. This Year that date started on Wed after sunset. Nisan 14 continues until the next sunset, for us sunset Thursday. Nisan 15 starts sunset Thursday and ends sunset Friday. Nisan 16 starts Friday at sunset and ends Saturday at sunset.

Jesus was died at 3PM Nisan 14 and was raised early morning Nisan 16.

Nisan 14 dead after 3PM (this year that's 3PM our Thursday but Passover started our Wed.)
Nisan 15 dead
Nisan 16 dead until early morning (our Saturday)

Jesus was dead on three days. This year on the Gregorian Calendar it appears as Thur, Fri and Sat. Last year Nisan 14 fell on Friday-Saturday. That means last year the anniversary of Jesus death by the Gregorian calendar was Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Died Saturday and raised our Monday.
No...Nissan 14 has not started yet, it is Friday April 22 and Pesach begins on Saturday Nissan 15 which is April 23....
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:24 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
That's a bit confusing. A day is 12 hours and a night 12 hours. The new day does not start in the evening. The new night begins in the evening. The new day starts in the morning, right after dawn or first light.
The Jews reckon days according to Genesis...Evening to morning were the first day...That's 12 hours...
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:31 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Only (perhaps in another 'resurrection' thread) that Passover was in the spring. I don't see that it makes much difference anyway, because, whether the Seder was eaten on the Friday (as the last Supper is supposed to be) or it was on the next day, after the lambs (including Jesus) were sacrificed) the resurrection is said to be on the First day of the week (Sunday - whether at evening or at dawn) and the 'Sabbath' looks like the day before and the crucifixion clearly on the day before that (Friday).



If one buys the timeline above rather than inserting a Friday Passover "sabbath" (thus making the crucifixion on Thursday) then yes, the gospels say that Jesus was put in the tomb on Saturday night, was there during the Saturday and rose either at evening (Sunday or Dawn, 12 hours later.

In which care one day or one and a half days in the tomb, and one or two nights.



Quite clearly I am not. I am well aware of the 12 hours of dark and 12 hours of daylight just as today - except that Jewish reckoning began the new day at evening as soon as three stars became visible. While the Gospel writers were not Jews (I would bet my pension on that), I think that they could be using a story that could have Jewish origins.



Yes. The four agree on that, at least. It means that Jesus either rose during the Sunday before dawn (one and a half days in the tomb), some time after Sunday began at evening (just over one day) or some time during Saturday (give or take the tomb guard or the Saturday night before the guard was posted. So not even a day in the tomb.
Well, disregarding the other gospels, Matthew is the only one that contains a lot of Hebraic idioms...And has anyone considered that he claimed to be lord of the Sabbath, which may give validity to his rising on the Sabbath?...Considering the tomb was already empty when the ladies arrived...
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:41 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No...Nissan 14 has not started yet, it is Friday April 22 and Pesach begins on Saturday Nissan 15 which is April 23....
You're making the same mistake everyone is and not using the formula the Jews used in Jesus day. Hebrew Calendar of the Old Testament was based on moon phases. Nisan 14 is always on a night of a full moon. The newer Jewish calendar today is not the same one they used in Jesus day.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:40 PM
 
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Like it or not Friday Crucifixion is a teaching of Rome and doesnt line up with scriptures. The best case if Wednesday wasnt the day and Jesus didnt mean a full 3 days would have been Thursday.

He was placed in tomb around 6pm(sunset) on Wednesday and at sunset on Saturday night he rose, which was considered the 1st day of the week, since a new day started at sunset and fulfilled the 3 days/3 nights. All 4 gospels said he rose early in the morning on the 1st day of the week, not at sunrise. They came at sunrise to see he was already gone.

He died @ 3pm on Wed and was placed in the grave right before sunset.
Wed 6PM-Thur 6PM= 1 night/1day
Thur 6PM-Fri 6PM= 1 night/1day
Fri 6PM-Sat 6PM= 1 night/1day


So you have 3 full days & 3 full nights. Jesus gave 1 sign and 1 sign only and it was he was going to be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. If he wasnt in the grave 3 days & 3 nights aka Fri-Sun, HE IS NOT THE MESSIAH.

(3 days/3 nights)
14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset 6pm
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday- Bought Spices to anoint the body
17th Saturday Sabbath- No work allowed & went to get more spices after the Sabbath & he Rose from the grave after sunset @ 6pm on 1st day of the week when Sabbath was over

If Jesus wasnt referring to a full 3 days and 3 nights, the best would be a Thursday
(3 days)
14th Thursday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset 6pm
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave after the sun went down Saturday, so this is early on the 1st day of the week.

But anyway you look at it, Friday is ruled out. This timeline shows the Sabbath ending when he rose and it was now the 1st day of the week.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, disregarding the other gospels, Matthew is the only one that contains a lot of Hebraic idioms...And has anyone considered that he claimed to be lord of the Sabbath, which may give validity to his rising on the Sabbath?...Considering the tomb was already empty when the ladies arrived...
Yes. Indeed there was a long debate with Alt thinker (on "Q" document), where he argued that Matthew was a Jew. I think that idea was debunked, but he certainly has an interest in scripture and hebrew idioms.

That doesn't really help here. In all the posts above, there is only one point that needs answer - the Jewish First day of the week is Sunday. There are 24 hours in a day or Jews as well as gentiles, 12 dark and 12 daylight, and Sabbath is on a Saturday. The lunar calendar is utterly irrelevant.

The diagram above argues that there was a Friday where nothing happened other than the women obtaining spices and ointments. But if you look at Luke 23. 56, itt says they returned and got on with preparing the stuff. That implies they did it immediately while there was still some of the day of preparation left (1). There is really no valid reason to pop another day in there, especially as the crucifixion is also said (I John, I believe) that it was the day of preparation both before the trial nd after the crucifixion. I'd say that settles the matter and the hash of that diagram.

While one could argue that there was an extra Passover 'sabbath', making Jesus executed on a Thursday and thus fulfil the 3 -day prophecy, it doesn't look like it from the gospel account. And for me it demonstrably didn't happen on Passover anyway.

I don't think there is much more to add, so I'll leave the thread for others to read and make up their minds.

(1) Luke is the only one to have this business of going and preparing the spices and ointments, though Mark does have the women bringing them as a reason for going to the tomb at all. Matthew says they just went to look at it. I love the Gospel of Peter that says they brought the stuff and, if they were unable to get the rock door open, they'd just hurl the bottles and jars at it.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-31-2016 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
You're making the same mistake everyone is and not using the formula the Jews used in Jesus day. Hebrew Calendar of the Old Testament was based on moon phases. Nisan 14 is always on a night of a full moon. The newer Jewish calendar today is not the same one they used in Jesus day.
I'm a Jew...So prove what you say...
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:22 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
You're making the same mistake everyone is and not using the formula the Jews used in Jesus day. Hebrew Calendar of the Old Testament was based on moon phases. Nisan 14 is always on a night of a full moon. The newer Jewish calendar today is not the same one they used in Jesus day.
BTW, that's a Christian website...If you are going to try to prove something Jewish, then please use Jewish sources...
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Like it or not Friday Crucifixion is a teaching of Rome and doesnt line up with scriptures. The best case if Wednesday wasnt the day and Jesus didnt mean a full 3 days would have been Thursday.

He was placed in tomb around 6pm(sunset) on Wednesday and at sunset on Saturday night he rose, which was considered the 1st day of the week, since a new day started at sunset and fulfilled the 3 days/3 nights. All 4 gospels said he rose early in the morning on the 1st day of the week, not at sunrise. They came at sunrise to see he was already gone.

He died @ 3pm on Wed and was placed in the grave right before sunset.
Wed 6PM-Thur 6PM= 1 night/1day
Thur 6PM-Fri 6PM= 1 night/1day
Fri 6PM-Sat 6PM= 1 night/1day


So you have 3 full days & 3 full nights. Jesus gave 1 sign and 1 sign only and it was he was going to be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. If he wasnt in the grave 3 days & 3 nights aka Fri-Sun, HE IS NOT THE MESSIAH.

(3 days/3 nights)
14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset 6pm
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday- Bought Spices to anoint the body
17th Saturday Sabbath- No work allowed & went to get more spices after the Sabbath & he Rose from the grave after sunset @ 6pm on 1st day of the week when Sabbath was over

If Jesus wasnt referring to a full 3 days and 3 nights, the best would be a Thursday
(3 days)
14th Thursday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset 6pm
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave after the sun went down Saturday, so this is early on the 1st day of the week.

But anyway you look at it, Friday is ruled out. This timeline shows the Sabbath ending when he rose and it was now the 1st day of the week.
I think it actually says dawning toward the first day, which would be transitioning from sunset Saturday to night Saturday which would be actually early Sunday....IOW, the dawning of the first day of the week would have been around 2100 hours, give of take considering the time of year...
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:13 AM
 
4,054 posts, read 3,715,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I think it actually says dawning toward the first day, which would be transitioning from sunset Saturday to night Saturday which would be actually early Sunday....IOW, the dawning of the first day of the week would have been around 2100 hours, give of take considering the time of year...

True, which automatically rules out a sunrise resurrection and the rest rules out a Friday Crucifixion.
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