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Old 04-01-2016, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
It still works because there are other scriptures where the 3rd day is not a full day but a part of a day. Other Bible accounts show that this expression can mean parts of three days and that part of one day can be considered a whole day. Gen 42:17, 18 1 Kings 12:5, 12. compare to Matthew 27:62-66; 28:1-6.

Jesus was dead on Nisan 14, 15 and 16. Raised on the third day, the 16th. If Jesus was raised on the 17th that would be part of a 4th day. Yet the Bible doesn't say 4 days. He died and was buried on the Nisan 14. They posted a guard on Nisan 15 hoping to stop his followers from stealing the body. On Nisan 16 the guard was gone and the body was gone. There is no accounting for the mysterious missing day. So we either accept that three days and nights as parts of 3 days like other bible accounts or we don't. Because he was in the tomb on all three days including Nisan 14 (the afternoon before sunset), all of Nisan 15 and Nisan 16 (early morning only). God didn't wait for another 'night' to raise His Son because that would have been Nisan 17. Day four. The fact that the Jewish leaders asked for a guard on the 15th and not the 16th even they understood what day Jesus was supposed to return.
Ok. Suppose we go with your dating Nisan 14 -16.

Nisan 14 Day trial Crucifixion
Evening. burial

Nisan 15 Night Jesus in tomb
Day Guard posted

Nisan 16 Night. Resurrection
Dawn. Day Trip to Emmaeus, Jesus appears to the disciples around evening.


The gospels say that the night of the tomb being found empty was the first day of the week. That is a Sunday.

So: Day of preparation - Friday Nisan 14 Day. trial, Crucifixion
Evening. burial (first day)

Nisan 15 Sabbath - Saturday Night Jesus in tomb (first night)
Day Guard posted (second day)

Nisan 16 First day of the week (Sunday) Night Resurrection (2nd night)
Dawn (3rd day) Trip to Emmaeus. Cleophas remarks about midday that it was now the third day since all those things had happened (Like 24.21), and by midday it would be. Jesus appears to the disciples around evening.


You see that this can be called three days (though now I set it out, it isn't much of Sunday at all and none of it if it is supposed that 'Dawn' (of the first day of the week) means the start of Sunday night.

So talking of three days and three nights looks like three days and two nights at best and more like one day and two nights. Nisan 17th would be the Monday and doesn't really figure in the resurrection account at all.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-01-2016 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:07 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
The reason why 24 hours is important is because the words out of Jesus own mouth was 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus knew a day was equal to 12 hrs.

John 11:9 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


So if a day is 12 hours, a night will be 12 hours as well, and Jesus said the only sign he will give that he is the son of man is that he will be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights, we MUST fully assume that Jesus did mean 3 days and 3 nights.
However, that assumption doesn't hold up when we read the accounts in the Bible. Thus he must of meant parts of day and not full days. Otherwise the account in the Bible is wrong.

Did Jesus die on the day before the Sabbath?
Was Jesus raised the day after the Sabbath?

Here's the timeline according to the Bible.

Nisan 14 3PM - Jesus dies. (our Friday)
Nisan 14 before sunset - Jesus is placed in the tomb (still our Friday by our calendar today)
__________________
Nisan 15 Begining at sunset - Sabbath begins (Still our Friday)
Nisan 15 Morning and a Greek guard is placed and it is still Sabbath (our Saturday)
__________________
Nisan 16 sunset - Sabbath ends (still our Saturday)
Nisan 16 early morning -Jesus is resurrected (our Sunday)
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:21 PM
 
34,692 posts, read 8,945,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
The reason why 24 hours is important is because the words out of Jesus own mouth was 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus knew a day was equal to 12 hrs.

John 11:9 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


So if a day is 12 hours, a night will be 12 hours as well, and Jesus said the only sign he will give that he is the son of man is that he will be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights, we MUST fully assume that Jesus did mean 3 days and 3 nights.
So, if we use your definition of 'Day' as 12 hours of daylight, we still have
a few hours of Friday (1 day)
Saturday night (one night)
Saturday daylight (2nd day)
Sunday night (2nd night)
Sunday dawn. (3rd day).

So even with your 12 hours we can wangle 3 days (being generous) but no way more than 2 nights. The only way is to argue that there was a day and night between the (Passover) Sabbath and the first day of the week (Sunday). That is supposedly the day when spices and ointment were prepared. But the problem is that the (Passover) Sabbath and the following day before Sunday (which is of course Saturday) is two Sabbaths and spices and ointments cannot be prepared on either day.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:34 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
So, if we use your definition of 'Day' as 12 hours of daylight, we still have
a few hours of Friday (1 day)
Saturday night (one night)
Saturday daylight (2nd day)
Sunday night (2nd night)
Sunday dawn. (3rd day).

So even with your 12 hours we can wangle 3 days (being generous) but no way more than 2 nights. The only way is to argue that there was a day and night between the (Passover) Sabbath and the first day of the week (Sunday). That is supposedly the day when spices and ointment were prepared. But the problem is that the (Passover) Sabbath and the following day before Sunday (which is of course Saturday) is two Sabbaths and spices and ointments cannot be prepared on either day.
The Bible account is correct if we dump the 24 hour idea. The 24 hours is what folks have assumed on their own but the Bible doesn't go by hours. There are other scriptures that say three days but it doesn't mean 24 hour days. For example, 1 Kings 12:5, 17 tells of Rehoboam’s asking Jeroboam and the Israelites to “go away for three days” and then return to him. That he did not mean three full 24-hour days but, rather, a portion of each of three days is seen by the fact that the people came back to him “on the third day.”

The biggest support that it was not 24 hours is the way the Jewish priests acted. Placing the guard on the Sabbath. Note they didn't place their own Jewish guard because it was the Sabbath. So the priest understood that the next day would be the 3rd day.

Also let me make sure of something. The term 'double Sabbath' you do understand that doesn't mean two Sabbath days. On 'Saturday evening' after sunset the Sabbath was over, they could then buy spices.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-01-2016 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:49 PM
 
4,054 posts, read 3,713,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
However, that assumption doesn't hold up when we read the accounts in the Bible. Thus he must of meant parts of day and not full days. Otherwise the account in the Bible is wrong.

Did Jesus die on the day before the Sabbath?
Was Jesus raised the day after the Sabbath?


Here's the timeline according to the Bible.

Nisan 14 3PM - Jesus dies. (our Friday)
Nisan 14 before sunset - Jesus is placed in the tomb (still our Friday by our calendar today)
__________________
Nisan 15 Begining at sunset - Sabbath begins (Still our Friday)
Nisan 15 Morning and a Greek guard is placed and it is still Sabbath (our Saturday)
__________________
Nisan 16 sunset - Sabbath ends (still our Saturday)
Nisan 16 early morning -Jesus is resurrected (our Sunday)

The Sabbath they are referring to doesnt have to be the Saturday Sabbath.

Passover is a Sabbath and the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is the day after Passover is also a Sabbath, which is why they bible referred to it as a High Sabbath, because it wasnt the Saturday one it was referring to.

Lets use your theory, using just part of days to equal a day.
Friday @3pm-6pm (ONE DAY)
Saturday 6pm-6am (ONE NIGHT)
Saturday 6am-6pm (TWO DAYS)
Saturday 6PM-resurrection (TWO NIGHTS)

You get 2 days and 2 nights absolute tops....You still fall short of 3 days and 3 nights or even 3 days.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:55 PM
 
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There are 24 hours in a day, just like there are 24 elders (word there means ray, as in a sun's rays) around the throne.....

12 hours of darkness (the tribes whose light had not yet come), with 12 hours of light (the apostles whose light had come)....just an FYI....Peace
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:15 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
The Sabbath they are referring to doesnt have to be the Saturday Sabbath.

Passover is a Sabbath and the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is the day after Passover is also a Sabbath, which is why they bible referred to it as a High Sabbath, because it wasnt the Saturday one it was referring to.

Lets use your theory, using just part of days to equal a day.
Friday @3pm-6pm (ONE DAY)
Saturday 6pm-6am (ONE NIGHT)
Saturday 6am-6pm (TWO DAYS)
Saturday 6PM-resurrection (TWO NIGHTS)

You get 2 days and 2 nights absolute tops....You still fall short of 3 days and 3 nights or even 3 days.
How do you come to the conclusion 'it doesn't have to be'? Nisan 15 was the High Sabbath. The day after Nisan 14 was always a Sabbath no matter what day is fell on. This time it fell on a normally occurring Sabbath day. It doesn't make the Sabbath day longer or add an extra day to the Sabbath. So I'm confused by "The Sabbath they are referring to doesnt have to be the Saturday Sabbath." I see no other day it could possibly be.

Your timeline above is close.

Friday @3pm-6pm (ONE DAY) Nisan 14
Friday 6pm-6am (ONE NIGHT) Nisan 15
Saturday 6am-6pm (TWO DAYS) Nisan 15
Resurrection between Saturday 6PM-early morning Sunday (TWO NIGHTS-THREE DAYS) Nisan 16

Those 'days' being Nisan 14, 15 and 16. We don't know what time on Nisan 16 Jesus was raised. It could be no earlier than Saturday 6PM but no later than early morning Sunday. Weather the light of day was present is not known fully. It could have been the crack of dawn for all we know. God might not have included that light had to be present at all. Just the day is what is important. Again, this whole hours of light and night is really throwing a bunch of folks for a loop. When reading the account of Mark we need to ask ourselves, is it true or is it not?
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:06 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
According to the Bible, the first full moon after the Spring Equinox is Passover. True or false?
You are still missing the point...
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:42 PM
 
34,692 posts, read 8,945,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
The Bible account is correct if we dump the 24 hour idea. The 24 hours is what folks have assumed on their own but the Bible doesn't go by hours. There are other scriptures that say three days but it doesn't mean 24 hour days. For example, 1 Kings 12:5, 17 tells of Rehoboam’s asking Jeroboam and the Israelites to “go away for three days” and then return to him. That he did not mean three full 24-hour days but, rather, a portion of each of three days is seen by the fact that the people came back to him “on the third day.”
It makes no difference. Whether you count a day as 24 hours and also reckoning the night separately or the days as 12 hours and the night as twelve doesn't give you three nights, unless you fiddle an extra day in there.

Quote:
The biggest support that it was not 24 hours is the way the Jewish priests acted. Placing the guard on the Sabbath. Note they didn't place their own Jewish guard because it was the Sabbath. So the priest understood that the next day would be the 3rd day.
That makes no difference either. It reads as though it was the day after the entombment (one night) and the next day would be the third (Sunday) and the 2nd night and the morning counted as day 3 (while not amounting more than a day and a half in actual hours).

If you fiddle in an extra (Passover) Sabbath on the Friday (making the crucifixion on the Thursday) then you have the guard watching that (Saturday) night, all the next day (Saturday Sabbath) and the resurrection on Sunday. that gives you 3 nights and two days, unless you count the few hours of Thursday and Sunday as a 'day' or make Sunday the 'third day'.

But Luke argues that Sunday is the third day since the crucifixion (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) so it seems to undermine the extra Sabbath theory which doesn't seem to be reflected in the text.

Quote:
Also let me make sure of something. The term 'double Sabbath' you do understand that doesn't mean two Sabbath days. On 'Saturday evening' after sunset the Sabbath was over, they could then buy spices.
As I understand the argument, Friday was a Sabbath because it was the day of the Passover feast, and the Saturday was the regular weekly Sabbath. Yes, I suppose you could argue that they could prepare the cosmetics when the Sabbath was over on the Saturday evening, but Luke 23. 56 contradicts that by saying that they prepared the spices (crucifixion day while there were still a few hours left) and then they rested on the Sabbath.

It makes no odds whether they did the ointments before the Sabbath began or after, but the point is that the diagram tries to fill in an otherwise blank day (just there to push crucifixion day back to Thursday) by saying the spices were prepared on that day. Well, both being Sabbaths would mean they couldn't and the spices would be on the crucifixion say or Sunday night and the 'extra' day would be embarrassingly blank.

So as I say, the Thursday crucifixion idea doesn't seem to make the three days prediction work, doesn't seem workable in itself and doesn't fit the text.

P.s I must crave indulgence from the faithful, who will see this as irrelevant detail. We old farts do delight in trivial minutiae.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-01-2016 at 09:56 PM..
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:00 PM
 
1,420 posts, read 394,044 times
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wow 9 pages......some thinking has been stimulated for sure.....way back there somebody posted He died on Wednesday.......which is true, and at 3pm.........but where the western mind is thrown for a loop is the fact that when it gets dark on Wednesday it begins THURSDAY in Israel......so He died late Wed afternoon but wasn't in the tomb until the beginning of Thursday. Thurs-Fri-Sat resurrection Sunday.

The other confusing point was the feast of unleavened bread was a once a year event and followed Passover the next day, and the day after that was the regular weekly Saturday sabbath. So 3 high holy days in a row. Followed by the mightiest event in human history the resurrection..........and the point of this post is you should not trust mens traditions, they aren't necessarily correct......
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