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Old 03-26-2016, 01:11 PM
 
11,164 posts, read 11,212,480 times
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Livelystone, here's my story: I have been ill/injured numerous times in my life. I have had occasions where I prayed really hard and had my church pray for me and nothing happened. Fortunately they were not fatal conditions and I eventually got well. Then I have had conditions where I didn't utter one prayer and neither did anyone else because they didn't know my condition and I miraculously healed. Then there were a few times where I prayed and I healed and I didn't pray and I didn't heal; I am living with one such conditions--40 years of prayers and it hasn't been healed; it is a chronic condition. I have never tithed and am fairly wealthy--my worth is roughly 1.7 million. I have seen all those people on TBN and Daystar tithe and tithe and read stories of people who tithe and tithe and they die poor as church mice.


What is the lesson from all of this? Forget prayer. It doesn't work. Statistically, atheists and other religions have exactly the same rate of good outcome as Christians who are prayed for. So you're either going to die or you aren't regardless of whether you're prayed for or not. That's a fact.


This is why I converted to deism. Deism says that God certainly exists but He takes no part in outcomes as a result of prayer. That's why little kids die horrible deaths by violence, illness, and starvation regardless of prayer. What is a determining factor is not their religion but their poverty, their demographic (where they live) their environment and their genetic predisposition to certain illnesses like leukemia.


I hope you get well. And I hope you come to realize as I have that everything the church conmen have taught you from the pulpit has been mostly lies, especially this nonsense that if you pray and have faith you will be cured. That's one of the biggest lies you've been told and preacher conmen have had to cover their tracks by reverting to the excuse, "God will cure you if you get to a doctor and let him treat you." Does that make the slightest bit of sense to you? Why does God have to resort to a middle man to cure you? Maybe it's because God just doesn't get involved; it's the Dr. and your own body doing the curing and you're either strong enough to get well or you aren't and so you die. It's biology and chance, Livelystone, pure and simple and you may not like hearing this but this is the reality of the situation. You can accept it or stick your head in the sand and go on believing what you've been taught--that God is active in all this and he will cure you. Or will He? You'll either drive yourself nuts or die of the illness long before you get an answer to your questions so just accept reality and put your mind at peace in whatever time you have left.

Last edited by thrillobyte; 03-26-2016 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 03-26-2016, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,226 posts, read 10,285,527 times
Reputation: 2588
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Livelystone, here's my story: I have been ill/injured numerous times in my life. I have had occasions where I prayed really hard and had my church pray for me and nothing happened. Fortunately they were not fatal conditions and I eventually got well. Then I have had conditions where I didn't utter one prayer and neither did anyone else because they didn't know my condition and miraculously healed. Then there were a few times where I prayed and I healed and I didn't pray and I didn't heal; I am living with one such conditions--40 years of prayers and it hasn't been healed; it is a chronic condition. I have never tithed and am fairly wealthy--my worth is roughly 1.7 million. I have seen all those people on TBN and Daystar tithe and tithe and read stories of people who tithe and tithe and they die poor a church mice.


What is the lesson from all of this? Forget prayer. It doesn't work. Statistically, atheists and other religions have exactly the same rate of good outcome as Christians who are prayed for. So you're either going to die or you aren't regardless of whether you're prayed for or not. That's a fact.


This is why I converted to deism. Deism says that God certainly exists but He takes no part in outcomes as a result of prayer. That's why little kids die horrible deaths by violence, illness, and starvation regardless of prayer. What is a determining factor is not their religion but their poverty, their demographic (where they live) and their environment.


I hope you get well. And I hope you come to realize as I have that everything the church conmen have taught you from the pulpit has been mostly lies, especially this nonsense that if you pray and have faith you will be cured. That's one of the biggest lies you've been told and preacher conmen have had to cover their tracks by reverting to the excuse, "God will cure you if you get to a doctor and let him treat you." Does that make the slightest bit of sense to you?
Common sense prevails. Good one!
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Old 03-26-2016, 01:37 PM
 
Location: US
27,891 posts, read 14,982,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone View Post
Either way is a win win............. either I live to serve Him or I go to Him
After you are resurrected...Not before...
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:40 PM
 
8,084 posts, read 7,044,914 times
Reputation: 1427
The women who's husband was murdered in the church by mean with clubs because of some legalism over charity from the book of Acts was also murdered by men with clubs in the church , no where does it say Holy spirit killed these people from the book of Acts as fear spread over the church , and Holy spirit will not bring fear as it is not His attribute ............... Best to seek God and break the curses of fallen angels or spiritual wickedness in the high places , as God cannot do it unless you or people who exercise these gifts will pray , then you need to repent and get rid of the demons on your back by the authority of the believer , then you need to get into the proper nutrition , as chemical doctors will put you down with their cursing as they need to be saved for them to work on saved people ....Jesus says stay cleansed and you will live all your days in the earth ...... Confess to Jesus `` I want to live and to proclaim the works of the Lord `` multiple times in your prays
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Old 03-26-2016, 04:02 PM
 
598 posts, read 256,532 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Considering you think that your god will heal you, you seem to be relying an lot on doctors and the medication and equipment given to you by those evil, atheist scientists. Why don't you have the courage of your convictions, stay home and pray and free up the hospital for people who don't believe that gods will help them ?
Despite your passive aggressive remarks I do consider your post worthy of a reply.

Possibly you might want to consider reading some of the entries in my blog from when by both man and machIne I was declared dead and then to the amazement of many people present came back to life, or when after being diagnosed with lung cancer given evidence by multiple x-rays about 14 months ago, but then miraculously healed by God.

As far as why do I have anything to do with modern medicine and am not totally dependent upon God for everything? Once again I think your remark is valid and points out my shortcomings that sometimes rather than go to Him in prayer I open a bottle and take a few Advils for pain (way back when my pain was that little)

There is a big difference between us taking care of the little things ourselves versus depending upon God to to take care of the big things and save us in our times of need.

It appears you are not my brother or sister in Christ, however, you are someone I do care about and look forward to the time when you too bow your head and praise God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords no matter what our current situation is.

For sure it is not a matter of if but when

Blessings to you

Doug
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Old 03-26-2016, 04:04 PM
 
598 posts, read 256,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
*hugs*

I don't know what to say, this news makes me sad. So I'll just hug you.
Bless you, you do exhibit the love of Christ in your life
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:06 PM
 
598 posts, read 256,532 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The women who's husband was murdered in the church by mean with clubs because of some legalism over charity from the book of Acts was also murdered by men with clubs in the church , no where does it say Holy spirit killed these people from the book of Acts as fear spread over the church , and Holy spirit will not bring fear as it is not His attribute ............... Best to seek God and break the curses of fallen angels or spiritual wickedness in the high places , as God cannot do it unless you or people who exercise these gifts will pray , then you need to repent and get rid of the demons on your back by the authority of the believer , then you need to get into the proper nutrition , as chemical doctors will put you down with their cursing as they need to be saved for them to work on saved people ....Jesus says stay cleansed and you will live all your days in the earth ...... Confess to Jesus `` I want to live and to proclaim the works of the Lord `` multiple times in your prays
I do not have any idea of what you mean when you speak about "death by clubs"

Having witnessed the power of God in so many times recorded in my testimony and in my book........... your post is nothing more than garble not worthy to be presented to God as any form of worship of a Holy God!!!

Your claims of greatness and knowledge of the truths of God are empty and hollow, please do not respond on this thread again
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:11 PM
 
598 posts, read 256,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
After you are resurrected...Not before...
Every person is immediately resurrected following their physical death as recorded in the scriptures and in my testimony shared in my blog
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,226 posts, read 10,285,527 times
Reputation: 2588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone View Post
Despite your passive aggressive remarks I do consider your post worthy of a reply.

Possibly you might want to consider reading some of the entries in my blog from when by both man and machIne I was declared dead and then to the amazement of many people present came back to life,...
No my friend. You were not 'dead'. You were not clinically dead which is what is meant by 'dead'. Clinically dead people do not come back to life. And even if you were dead, it was the efforts of highly trained medical staff assisted by modern technology that brought you back. And if you really did die, why aren't you cursing the medical team for bring you back. Didn't you want to be with your god? Didn't the medical staff foil the plan that your god had planned for you?

Quote:
...or when after being diagnosed with lung cancer given evidence by multiple x-rays about 14 months ago, but then miraculously healed by God.
...and during your time with lung cancer you received not one scrap of medical treatment? Having been diagnosed with lung cancer you just went home and 'prayed'? Not a single pill, not a single dose of chemotherapy? Nothing?

Have the medical reports of your miraculous recovery from death and cancer been published in peer-reviewed medical journals because I'm sure that a genuine case of being 'dead', coming back to life AND mysteriously coming back from an incurable cancer would have astonished the whole of the medical profession throughout the world. There would have been newspaper and TV reports world-wide about someone not only dying and coming back to life but mysteriously recovering from cancer too. Seriously man, I would love to read them. Do you have such reports Doug?

Last year I was diagnosed with emphysema. Large spots on both lungs they said, '25% of your lung capacity gone, never to return' I was told. 'Nothing we can do for you' they told me. This year, on my annual check to make sure it wasn't getting any worse, they told me it was gone! 'Not a sign of it' they said. 'We can only put it down to a problem with the equipment or human error.'

Quote:
As far as why do I have anything to do with modern medicine and am not totally dependent upon God for everything? Once again I think your remark is valid and points out my shortcomings that sometimes rather than go to Him in prayer I open a bottle and take a few Advils for pain (way back when my pain was that little)

There is a big difference between us taking care of the little things ourselves versus depending upon God to to take care of the big things and save us in our times of need.
There is no difference Doug. If you believed, I mean REALLY believed that your god would heal you, you would shun modern medicine and science and rely solely on it to do so. You take modern medicines and use modern equipment given to you by those evil, atheist scientists and trust those evil atheist doctors to cure you for a reason; and that reason is - you know that it works and you trust it to cure you far more than you trust your god to cure you

Quote:
It appears you are not my brother or sister in Christ,...
You are correct. I'm atheist but that doesn't mean I am against you. I AM against what you believe of course. I read these type of stories about 'miracle cures' all over the internet Doug...and you know, rarely do I see any of them where due credit is given to highly trained medical staff, doctors, surgeons, modern technology, science etc. It reminds me of a joke Doug...

Surgeon: I have good news Mr Jones. You are now completely free of cancer.
Mr, Jones: Oh Thank God!
Surgeon: Don't thank God Mr Jones. Thank me. Your God gave you the cancer; I took it away.


Quote:
....however, you are someone I do care about and look forward to the time when you too bow your head and praise God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,...
It won't happen my friend, nor am I frightened by the threats of ancient superstitions.

Quote:
Blessings to you
Thanks Doug...but save them for those that believe in them

Last edited by Rafius; 03-26-2016 at 11:57 PM..
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:49 PM
 
598 posts, read 256,532 times
Reputation: 71
I tried to make a post on this thread but the many demons here are keeping it from appearing on this thread

Part of it is appearing as a new thread I have not intended to post as a new thread but only as a reply on this thread

I have to do so many fast moves just to be able to post here proves the presence of demonic forces here

This place really sucks big time
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