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Old 04-02-2016, 01:20 PM
 
4,583 posts, read 2,270,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
God does not respond to need - He responds to faith. Spend enough time growing your faith muscles because He is (not because you need or want something from Him) and you get God's attention. It's that simple. Jesus couldn't do anything in Nazareth because of their lack of faith - they thought he was just / still the carpenter boy.
However, please keep in mind Jesus did heal people who did Not know him - John 5:13. - Luke 9:11

It is good to pray for more faith, but faith does Not cure otherwise all Christians would be cured.
Please remember the challenge Satan puts before all of us - Job 2:4-5
Touch our ' flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus, under adverse conditions, proved Satan a liar and so can we.

Healing comes during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth - Revelation 22:2
Mankind will then see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations.
Then, No one will say, " I am sick...." - Isaiah 33:24
At that future time our last enemy ' death ' will be brought to nothing - 1st Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
That is also why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts 25:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

So, whether we are alive on earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37
or, need a resurrection, there will be a have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection for those who can gain everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical earth in perfect health as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:23 PM
 
1,489 posts, read 612,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
I had a family member who believed as you seem to. His church refused to go to doctors or seek any medical help, because God healed . Even when his sons got injured they were taken to the church for elders to pray over, not to a doctor . He had a heart attack and refused to go see a doctor because God heals. He died .


I guess the guy that wouldn't even take his kids to doctors but trusted God to heal them just didn't have enough faith .

None of this explains why babies or small children don't get healed of life ending conditions .
The condition you are identifying is the 'word of faith' movement - those that cite scripture like mantras, but haven't done the knee time before God, or have issues in their lives that they need to white wash over, and appear holier than others. Another term is 'Rhema flakes' which hails from Rhema church in South Africa. I had a friend who said he was conversing with someone who was streaming with a cold, but the guy insisted he didn't have it. It can get out of hand, especially when leaders bang that particular drum.

I feel your pain for the children - and I believe God does too, but someone has to press into God for the children - who are the hands and feet of Jesus. Who is it going to be?
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:48 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,784,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
We may overcome the things of this world.
However, death is inevitable, fear it not!

The way I read it, it says you die once, then the resurrection. But what happens if you experience the resurrection before you physically die? Peace
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:50 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,784,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
The condition you are identifying is the 'word of faith' movement - those that cite scripture like mantras, but haven't done the knee time before God, or have issues in their lives that they need to white wash over, and appear holier than others. Another term is 'Rhema flakes' which hails from Rhema church in South Africa. I had a friend who said he was conversing with someone who was streaming with a cold, but the guy insisted he didn't have it. It can get out of hand, especially when leaders bang that particular drum.

I feel your pain for the children - and I believe God does too, but someone has to press into God for the children - who are the hands and feet of Jesus. Who is it going to be?

Amen.....I've explained in other posts on here why that doesn't work, and is lacking a spiritual principle. The church leaders have a lot to answer for. Peace
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:54 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,465,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
The condition you are identifying is the 'word of faith' movement - those that cite scripture like mantras, but haven't done the knee time before God, or have issues in their lives that they need to white wash over, and appear holier than others. Another term is 'Rhema flakes' which hails from Rhema church in South Africa. I had a friend who said he was conversing with someone who was streaming with a cold, but the guy insisted he didn't have it. It can get out of hand, especially when leaders bang that particular drum.

I feel your pain for the children - and I believe God does too, but someone has to press into God for the children - who are the hands and feet of Jesus. Who is it going to be?



My relative lived in Texas . How is it that you purport to know that he was a part of some word mantra movement , know his beliefs, his devotion or understanding , or that he hadn't done the " knee time" before God?
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:28 PM
 
1,489 posts, read 612,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
My relative lived in Texas . How is it that you purport to know that he was a part of some word mantra movement , know his beliefs, his devotion or understanding , or that he hadn't done the " knee time" before God?
We have already covered the topic of using doctors and nurses where sensible / practicable. God has given man the intelligence to develop medicine and science. I'm going to ignore the fact it seems you always see things opposite or out of context - hmm, you never commented on light shining in darkness now, did you. Where was I: Like Howard Taylor's son in law said, ”He would work as if everything depended on the work, and pray as if everything depended on the prayer." I'll say Amen to that.

I will also say this: if I was a leader in a church, and there wasn't signs and wonders and healings and miracles or there wasn't testimonies that it was happening for the congregants, I'd stop what we were doing until we found out what was wrong, and why it wasn't working. If people wanted to carry on going through the motions because "it's what we do" I'd leave that church in their incapable hands. I wasnt especially a leader (well i used to lead the singing) but that's pretty much the position I'm in anyway. We were asked to leave because we didnt believe in eternal torment - i wasnt quite sure why they were afraid of us or our position on that. Hey ho.
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:31 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Faith moves mountains, not need. And your flesh sounds just like the son that stayed home, unhappy when the prodigal was blessed of the Father.
You sure do like to analyze posters you know little about.

I have witnessed ENORMOUS faith from people who were not healed. Including a 17-year old who needed a bone marrow match that was never found and a much-loved 30-year-old newlywed who died of ovarian cancer. It's been my experience that the "God heals people with faith" line is the mantra of people who can repeat lines from the Bible but haven't spent much time in oncology waiting rooms.

Do I think God heals some people? Yes. Do I think God heals based on our faith? No. That's something promoted by religious extremists and smacks of blaming the sick person for not getting well.
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:32 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,784,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
We have already covered the topic of using doctors and nurses where sensible / practicable. God has given man the intelligence to develop medicine and science. I'm going to ignore the fact it seems you always see things opposite or out of context - hmm, you never commented on light shining in darkness now, did you. Where was I: Like Howard Taylor's son in law said, ”He would work as if everything depended on the work, and pray as if everything depended on the prayer." I'll say Amen to that.

I will also say this: if I was a leader in a church, and there wasn't signs and wonders and healings and miracles or there wasn't testimonies that it was happening for the congregants, I'd stop what we were doing until we found out what was wrong, and why it wasn't working. If people wanted to carry on going through the motions because "it's what we do" I'd leave that church in their incapable hands. I wasnt especially a leader (well i used to lead the singing) but that's pretty much the position I'm in anyway. We were asked to leave because we didnt believe in eternal torment - i wasnt quite sure why they were afraid of us or our position on that. Hey ho.

I've found that with each major revelation, those culled from the herd grow smaller and smaller in number. It's almost as if few there be that find it, isn't it?
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:50 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,465,125 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
We have already covered the topic of using doctors and nurses where sensible / practicable. God has given man the intelligence to develop medicine and science. I'm going to ignore the fact it seems you always see things opposite or out of context - hmm, you never commented on light shining in darkness now, did you. Where was I: Like Howard Taylor's son in law said, ”He would work as if everything depended on the work, and pray as if everything depended on the prayer." I'll say Amen to that.

I will also say this: if I was a leader in a church, and there wasn't signs and wonders and healings and miracles or there wasn't testimonies that it was happening for the congregants, I'd stop what we were doing until we found out what was wrong, and why it wasn't working. If people wanted to carry on going through the motions because "it's what we do" I'd leave that church in their incapable hands. I wasnt especially a leader (well i used to lead the singing) but that's pretty much the position I'm in anyway. We were asked to leave because we didnt believe in eternal torment - i wasnt quite sure why they were afraid of us or our position on that. Hey ho.



You always seem to answer just slightly off topic , as if to avoid what others are actually saying . The topic was faith causing miracles, not whether or not to use doctors .

I am happy to see you don't buy into the notion of a God that would torment people for all eternity though.

I would challenge you to invite sceptics into your church and puts these miracles to an actual test by those not inclined to accept them . My experience with claims of miracles , especially when they are claimed to happen regularly , is that either they don't hold up to scrutiny, or that they are simply normal things perceived as miracles by believers . For example, someone has a problem with a boss . They pray for God to help them deal . Boss gets fired .

ITS A MIRACLE!

Or much more likely , others were also having problems with him and management figured out he was a crappy boss and fired him.

I have a friend who was completely convinced a close relative would be healed of cancer . They claimed that God had given them a crystal clear message of this in the Bible. The relative died within a few months . And what was the response from my friend? " Well , God DID heal him by taking him to Heaven, that just wasn't the type of healing I wanted ".

Christians have an almost unique ability to make themselves believe anything they want to believe .
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:03 PM
 
598 posts, read 240,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Well without going through every post (or your blog, which I have asked you to give me the link to and you haven't) you could read your post #15 in which you claimed to have had lung cancer which quite clearly involved the expertise, skill, equipment and science of a hospital and it's staff, yet you claimed to have been miraculously 'cured' by your god. I can't believe that you were not receiving the amount of medical care that lung cancer would demand. Are you saying that you were going to hospital but they did absolutely nothing for you and it was all down to your god?

Day after day we read about these 'miraculous' cures by gods and I have never, NEVER yet come upon one that did not involve the person receiving the best of medical attention yet giving all the credit to their gods...and I suspect that you are the same. All I've seen you do is whinge and complain about the medical treatment you have received from hospitals. Well in that case don't go to hospitals. If you think that your god is miraculously curing you and hospitals are doing nothing for you STAY HOME AND PRAY. Fair enough?
:
As if you know anything about christian anything............. diseases need to be known before they can be properly prayed for

Anyway, I was told one day and cured the next with what they said was nothing they could EXPLAIN OTHER THAN MY LUNGS WEREat that point CANCER FREE............. and I will be aggressive as you are saying I am not being truthful

Fair enough?
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