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Old 03-29-2016, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,085 posts, read 4,174,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Mike555, Matadora - You will not prove anything thousands of years removed from the events.

As the Scriptures indicate, these are issues to be taken by faith... not by proof.
Yes the scriptures are not considered historical evidence by any standards.

However if one uses them as such then they are not paying very close attention.
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,085 posts, read 4,174,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And yet DRob, there is valid historical evidence not only that Jesus existed, but that He was resurrected.
Show us credible verifiable evidence for this vs. posting YouTube videos.
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:48 PM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Show us credible verifiable evidence for this vs. posting YouTube videos.
I already have. Listen to the videos. And again, we're done. I'm not going to waste my time with your petty arguments and accusations.
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,085 posts, read 4,174,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I already have. Listen to the videos. And again, we're done. I'm not going to waste my time with your petty arguments and accusations.
I did listen to them and no where does it prove anything.

Why do you think I posted a rebuttal to your videos that don't prove anything?

Now here is a video for you.

Debate - Robert Price vs William Lane Craig - Did Jesus Rise From The Dead


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vaqsnhgJY
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,804 posts, read 2,161,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I already have. Listen to the videos. And again, we're done. I'm not going to waste my time with your petty arguments and accusations.
Ive always taken that ROCK that sealed his entombed body that was rolled away..and by scripture suggests his remains were no longer there..then the finding of the "Shroud of Turin"...But less face it over 2 thousand years later..and with science advances ..just maybe this should could be either verified or debunked. Crown of thorns noted in pictures kind of makes me lean towards some very "Special" executed/crucified person..and there's no record of this being a normal way of crucifixion that I have found...
sample pictures~~
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...d_2521848k.jpg

Even Pope Francis is trying to lobby to have this Shroud retested and his petition is found at the end of this article~~

The Shroud of Turin – Test the Shroud

If you would like to get more involved, please click here to sign the petition to Pope Francis to have the Shroud of Turin tested to prove its validity.

Having said all that I guess one has to have a certain faith...but I have to say after living my life ...and so many experiences with death and dying..along with personal observations ( too many to detail)..

I happen to believe (faith) that there is something to the notion of Heaven/Hell and souls getting trapped ( especially religious folks) because of fear of afterlife....

So bottomline..I have to believe no earthly person knows exactly where Christ's body went..but believers think he rose/walked amongst his believers/apostles ..and then acceded intact to Heaven.. but his dead body left behind residual evidence on this shroud ( decomposition imprint) ..

It all comes down to belief and faith with a few pieces of evidence and Biblical recounts by Religious scholars of THAT TIME!!
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Old 03-29-2016, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,260 posts, read 14,135,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And yet DRob, there is valid historical evidence not only that Jesus existed, but that He was resurrected. And for those persons who have doubts, the historical evidence can make the difference as it did for New Testament scholar Gary Habermas who engaged in an intensive study of the evidence and in the process became a recognized authority on the resurrection of Jesus. It is no coincidence that the very foundation upon which Christianity is based, the resurrection of Jesus, also has the greatest amount of historical evidence to support it.

For those people who don't care to concern themselves with that historical evidence, and instead just take it on faith, that's fine. But some people want evidence. And that evidence exists. And I am solidly in support of providing that evidence for those who may benefit by it, as I myself benefited by it.

I won't ask you to view the video below, but I present it since it is a lecture by Habermas whom I referred to above.
If that is how the Holy Spirit is leading you, I'm not going to take issue.
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Old 03-29-2016, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,260 posts, read 14,135,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Yes the scriptures are not considered historical evidence by any standards.

However if one uses them as such then they are not paying very close attention.
They are .... in that they are describing actual events... but I understand the purpose is not to solely chronicle events.
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Old 03-29-2016, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
10,085 posts, read 4,174,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
They are .... in that they are describing actual events... but I understand the purpose is not to solely chronicle events.
No they are not considered historical evidence nor can they be used as an Academic Source.

Academic Sources for Essays

Do you really need me to spell it out for you as to why?

For example, let's look at the 'gospels'.

We have 'four works' that are completely anonymous.

So they have no value as testimony.

They are without any references.

So they don't make for good history. They are without any of the standard methods of historicity that were already common for the era (See the Greeks, see Josephus, etc.)

So there is no grounds upon which one can claim these are legitimate history, hence they need to provide corroboration.

Furthermore, it is prima facie ridiculous that there wouldn't be confirmation, given the claims in the book of "Mark".

Last edited by Matadora; 03-29-2016 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,260 posts, read 14,135,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
No they are not considered historical evidence nor can they be used as an Academic Source.

Academic Sources for Essays

Do you really need me to spell it out for you as to why?

For example, let's look at the 'gospels'.

We have 'four works' that are completely anonymous.

So they have no value as testimony.

They are without any references.

So they don't make for good history. They are without any of the standard methods of historicity that were already common for the era (See the Greeks, see Josephus, etc.)

So there is no grounds upon which one can claim these are legitimate history, hence they need to provide corroboration.

Furthermore, it is prima facie ridiculous that there wouldn't be confirmation, given the claims in the book of "Mark".
I'm agreeing with you in a technical sense.

But if I write a letter to someone describing my experience during Hurricane Ike in 2008 when I was stuck in a church for three days - it's not a historical document, but the events are accurate.
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:34 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,412 posts, read 12,113,023 times
Reputation: 10674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I already have. Listen to the videos. And again, we're done. I'm not going to waste my time with your petty arguments and accusations.
This is approximately the 114th flounce from a thread that I have seen announced by Mike555.

And I STILL have to stop and admire the head-toss and twirl of pompous, self-righteous outrage.
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