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Old 04-11-2016, 03:27 PM
 
7,745 posts, read 3,433,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
He makes it up as he goes. Ironically the biggest declines are in the liberal denominations which have turned the house of God into social clubs and gay-wedding banquets. The other reason for declines is in the liberal education system which is doing a good job at turning our youth into atheists while obtaining higher education.
Sure seems that way. I can't figure out the foundation of his beliefs. He uses the example of Christ and the Pharisees as justification for not liking Bible believing Christians and using profanity even though Christ commands us to love everyone. Once you start watering down Christianity then there really isn't much reason to keep the faith.
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:32 PM
 
7,745 posts, read 3,433,571 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Not that facts have ever dissuaded you from your prejudice, but if you go back and read the posts I made, there are at least four separate sources reporting the decline of Christianity including fundamentalists. Some evangelical pastors are even praising the "culling" of the church to "true" believers. They just ignore the fact that those who remain are graying.

Your and finn's idea of "discipleship" boils down to believing stuff in order to get stuff. That is now the message of evangelicals.

Last year Jonathan Merritt wrote the following:

Mohler and Moore’s own Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), declined as a share of the population by 1.5 percent between 2007 and 2014—even more quickly than evangelicalism at large. The evangelical Assemblies of God, Church of Christ, Presbyterian Church in America, and Church of God failed to grow at all. The only evangelical body among the top 15 largest Protestant denominations that saw any growth was the Seventh-Day Adventists, and they only experienced a 0.1 percent increase as a share of the population.

During this same time period, among mainline denominations, the United Methodist Church declined by 1.5 percent, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America declined by 0.6 percent, the Presbyterian Church (USA) declined by 0.2 percent, the United Church of Christ declined by only 0.1 percent, and the American Baptist Churches USA actually grew by 0.3 percent.
- See more at: Evangelicals' claims of conservative supremacy are overstated

You and Finn live in a world of delusion and interpret Scripture in a delusional fashion.
Ok I guess the Pew study is not a reliable source of data huh? Funny how you have no problem using their data when it fits your needs.

Quote:

The evangelical Protestant share of the U.S. population also has dipped, but at a slower rate, falling by about one percentage point since 2007.2

America’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center


Sorry, but one percent isn't impressive. We may not be growing, but people are not leaving in droves regardless of how much you desire it. If that many people were leaving the faith, we wouldnt be seeing an explosion of Christian movies doing well at the box office and thousands showing up for revival events.
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:56 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,295 posts, read 20,036,083 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Where is the "good news" in discrimination?
Surely bigotry is NOT good news?
Preaching LOVE is NOT enough, how can that be good news?
Denying health care is a far cry from GOOD news
Eliminating food subsidies does not resemble good news
WAR, at any level will never be GOOD NEWS
GREED and ACCUMULATION of wealth has no relationship to good news

I AM DONE with people on this forum who CRY and WHINE like little pre-schoolers every time some challenges their version of good news and holds the Pharisees accountable for their deliberate twisting of Jesus' message of LOVE, MERCY, JUSTICE and COMPASSION simpley because they feel entitled and have membership in some exclusive club that they have been led to BELIEVE one simply cannot do as the thief on the cross did that day and say-REMEMBER ME--and as sure as the 613 Laws no longer apply, the thief was promised a place with Christ in paradise--NO OTHER REQUIREMENTS, NO OTHER HOOPS TO JUMP--FORGIVENESS IS FREE and for the asking--NO MERE MORTAL gets to decide who is and is not on the train...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O2GbdO-ZYA
Well said .
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,581 posts, read 31,984,992 times
Reputation: 9423
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Sure seems that way. I can't figure out the foundation of his beliefs. He uses the example of Christ and the Pharisees as justification for not liking Bible believing Christians and using profanity even though Christ commands us to love everyone. Once you start watering down Christianity then there really isn't much reason to keep the faith.
The reasons for people leaving the church seem to be the exact opposite of what is being claimed here.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:01 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,295 posts, read 20,036,083 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Sure seems that way. I can't figure out the foundation of his beliefs. He uses the example of Christ and the Pharisees as justification for not liking Bible believing Christians and using profanity even though Christ commands us to love everyone. Once you start watering down Christianity then there really isn't much reason to keep the faith.
The watering down occurred by what evangelicals added to the message of Jesus Christ. I honestly believe all the books in the world could not contain all that's been added to the message of Jesus Christ by American evangelicals.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,833,848 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You know full well that I don't hold to your amillennialist interpretation. We've been over this before, and you even suggested that I might be going to hell because I believe that there will be a literal thousand year kingdom on the earth when Jesus returns.

And I do apologize for that, it was not proper thing to have stated.

I should have clarified it by the context of 2 Peter 3 as a whole, as in a general warning God gives not something as I worded it towards you specifically.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:50 PM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,696,619 times
Reputation: 7451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You know full well that I don't hold to your amillennialist interpretation. We've been over this before, and you even suggested that I might be going to hell because I believe that there will be a literal thousand year kingdom on the earth when Jesus returns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
[/b]And I do apologize for that, it was not proper thing to have stated.

I should have clarified it by the context of 2 Peter 3 as a whole, as in a general warning God gives not something as I worded it towards you specifically.
Thank you. Apology accepted.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,638 posts, read 5,139,057 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Ok I guess the Pew study is not a reliable source of data huh? Funny how you have no problem using their data when it fits your needs.




America’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center


Sorry, but one percent isn't impressive. We may not be growing, but people are not leaving in droves regardless of how much you desire it. If that many people were leaving the faith, we wouldnt be seeing an explosion of Christian movies doing well at the box office and thousands showing up for revival events.
From still another source, jeffie, or should I say Mr. Goodieshoes.

Quote:
Finally, the conservative politics drove us away. There were some progressive Evangelicals, yet their voices were sidelined far too often. For the last couple of decades, a majority of the movement began to find great power as the Christian Right. Partnering with the Republican Party, they began to extol an idealized view of the family, rallying against abortion and homosexual rights. Often the fixation on these two issues came at the expense of feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless. Many Christian Right leaders brushed aside caring for the earth and mocked global climate change. Health care became demonized and wars glorified. So many Christian teachings became sacrificed for the Republican agenda that we hardly recognized our faith any longer. And so we left our congregations.
Why Evangelicalism Is Failing A New Generation

The problem with your movie going is that it is representative of your christianity--all style with no substance. You are definitely a Hollywood Christian--all about the show, never living in the layers.

But here's still another source:

Quote:
All across the United States today, believers who once attended church regularly are in the dropout category. Some quit because they were wounded by leaders or disappointed by pastoral failure. Others became bored with irrelevant church programs or petty squabbles. Others simply felt relationally disconnected, even though they sat beside the same people week after week.


In an increasingly secular culture, pastors are facing the reality that the social pressures of respectability or family influence that may have once filled church pews no longer hold sway. Additionally, committed believers are asking whether their Sunday morning ritual of sitting in a pew, singing songs and listening to a sermon is what it means to obey the Scriptures’ command to be the church.
Why Are So Many Christians Quitting Church? ? Charisma Magazine

And finally this. The Barna Group IS a conservative christian research group--but don't believe them.
Quote:
But why? The Barna Group has identified six major factors that are driving young people away from religion:
  1. Young adults and teens see their churches as overprotective, saying “Christians demonize everything outside of the church,” and that their churches ignore “the problems of the real world.”
  2. Many find their connection to Christianity to be shallow, saying that church is boring, or that their faith “is not relevant” to their career or interests. 20% even stated that God seemed to be missing from their church experiences.
  3. Reason number three is a big one – many young adults feel a strong conflict between their religion and science. A full quarter of those surveyed believe “Christianity is anti-science,” and 23% have become frustrated with debating creationism vs. evolution. Three out of ten believe that their churches are out of step with the modern, scientific world. The research further goes to show that young Christians interested in science are struggling to reconcile their religious beliefs with their profession.
  4. Many also see their church’s views on sexuality as simplistic and judgmental. Most young Christians are just as sexually active as their non-Christian peers, despite holding more conservative attitudes regarding sexuality. 17% say they feel judged in church because of their sexual decisions. 40% of Catholics between 18 and 29 believe that the church’s teachings about sexuality and birth control are out of date.
  5. Many young Americans believe that Christianity is not open-minded or tolerant towards those of other religions. 29% feel that they are being forced to choose between church doctrine and their friendships.
  6. Finally, many of those surveyed admitted that they were unable to express doubts within the church. They felt unable to ask questions and receive satisfactory answers. 18% stated that their faith did not help them cope with depression and emotional problems that they experience.

Read more: Why Are Young People Leaving Evangelical Christianity? | Care2 Causes

You, sir, represent every one of the six reasons young people not only are, but should, stay away from your religion.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:14 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,619 posts, read 22,804,003 times
Reputation: 7637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
From still another source, jeffie, or should I say Mr. Goodieshoes.

Why Evangelicalism Is Failing A New Generation

The problem with your movie going is that it is representative of your christianity--all style with no substance. You are definitely a Hollywood Christian--all about the show, never living in the layers.

But here's still another source:

Why Are So Many Christians Quitting Church? ? Charisma Magazine

And finally this. The Barna Group IS a conservative christian research group--but don't believe them.
[/list]
Read more: Why Are Young People Leaving Evangelical Christianity? | Care2 Causes

You, sir, represent every one of the six reasons young people not only are, but should, stay away from your religion.
ARGH!!! DATA!! You are making their brains HURT and forcing them to THINK!!!

Why don't you just toss a bucket of water on them and be done with it!!
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,638 posts, read 5,139,057 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Sure seems that way. I can't figure out the foundation of his beliefs. He uses the example of Christ and the Pharisees as justification for not liking Bible believing Christians and using profanity even though Christ commands us to love everyone. Once you start watering down Christianity then there really isn't much reason to keep the faith.
Quote:
Better is open rebuke Than love that is concealed.
Psalm 27:5
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