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Old 04-03-2016, 11:52 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,778,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
What if I were to tell you that I believe in the same Spirit you believe in. But I don't accept that just because that Spirit was written about in a story as belonging to one religion, then that story must be true.

The Spirit witnesses the Word, because they are one. Simple as that. Peace
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Old 04-03-2016, 11:56 AM
 
8,550 posts, read 11,876,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
The Spirit witnesses the Word, because they are one. Simple as that. Peace
Peace and God by with you as well.
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Old 04-03-2016, 12:04 PM
 
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And you, too. Peace and blessings....
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Old 04-04-2016, 04:05 AM
 
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So it really comes down to Faith, in the end, and any evidence is selected to support it. conversion experiences are taken a proof of this or that belief and the same experience in other Faiths is dismissed as not the Real Thing.

The "Evidence" for that is that they don't have a Jesus - which they would regard as evidence that theirs is correct (1).

Conversions, even if we accept the account at face value, prove nothing. Nor do the Gospel accounts of the Easter events really stack up. And that is the biggest single debunker of the resurrection claim.

I know that the story has been accepted as reliable by hundreds of writers and scholars, believers and skeptic. Yet I know that they do not stand up under examination and the only counters I have had are 'weaving together' (which is fiddling the evidence) and appeal to the disciples believed it, which s really using Bibleclaims to support other Bibleclaims.

It's still very much open to debate, but I am confident that scholars, when they finally start analyzing the gospels (I cannot understand why they don't ever seem to have done so up to now, but prefer to assume a Jesus-was-a reforming socialist Rabbi theory and then select and fiddle the text to support it) will see that the Easter story stacks up no more than the nativity, which at least is beginning to be understood as fatally discrepant.

(1) the classic is that the Muslims regard the Son of God claim as proof that Christianity is false, whereas the Christians regard it as proof that it is true. And both are circular arguments.
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Although Passover is chronolgically April 22-23 we know christ rose three days later. The christian church lacking it's hebrew roots have mislocated what we refer to Easter ( not the celebration or intentions ,but the date.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
For the umpteenth time, jeffy, I'm not an atheist.

And for the umpteenth time, most of my family, friends and loved ones are Christians. But you would not recognize them as such because - except for one - they know evolution is true and have no problems with gay marriage.

I consider them to be real Christians. You, Viz, twin, jimmie et al are cardboard Christians. Your entire religion is between the cardboard covers of an old book from which you parrot ignorant, primitive thoughts from ignorant, primitive men sparing you from the problem of having to think at all.

Which is the root of fundamentalism's appeal for a certain sub-segment of society.
Are you saying those 'real christian' family members do not believe what is written in the 'cardboard covers of an old book' aka the Bible?
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:50 AM
Status: "Amused by BF." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Are you saying those 'real christian' family members do not believe what is written in the 'cardboard covers of an old book' aka the Bible?
I'm saying they're intelligent, educated and rational enough to separate biblical truths from the morass of chaff which infests that book.

Fundamentalists have no such sieve. They just swallow it whole.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Turlock, CA
322 posts, read 214,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I'm saying they're intelligent, educated and rational enough to separate biblical truths from the morass of chaff which infests that book.

Fundamentalists have no such sieve. They just swallow it whole.
No True Scotsman.

Though I agree that there's a spectrum, the concept that if you don't accept, let's say, gay marriage on a moral level, you're one of those "bad Christians who don't get it" is ridiculous. I disagree with plenty of people on religious and moral matters, but I'm not going to spend time vilifying them regarding their personal beliefs.

The farthest I'll go is objecting when they start behaving in an aggressive fashion towards others, since then they're losing the message by enforcing the rules.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:14 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,778,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
What if I were to tell you that I believe in the same Spirit you believe in. But I don't accept that just because that Spirit was written about in a story as belonging to one religion, then that story must be true.

I want to apologize to you for my brief reply to this previously. After re-reading this, I think we had a misunderstanding on my part. If you are telling me by this that you HAVE the same Spirit (not just believe in it), then I believe you because no man can say He lives in his flesh except through the power of the Holy Ghost.

So if that is what you are telling me, and WITH that you are also telling me that you don't believe the book, then I would have to tell you that we ALL have other spirits that must be dealt with even after we've received the right one. When Joshua, a type of Christ entered the promised land, it still had "giants" in the land to be overthrown.

Most Christians have not been taught anything along this line, so I use this for an example. No one I have ever met has responded in the negative. Have you ever been up in a high place, like a bridge, or over Niagara Falls, or even the railing on a high floor of a building, and just for a FLEETING second had a thought come in about jumping, or what would happen if you jumped, ect.?

Well, that is how subtle the serpent is. He speaks to us in thoughts, that without the Holy Spirit and the Word in us to guide us, we are so used to it (having heard it even in the womb) from having heard it all our lives, we think it is "us". It's familiar.

Most people who are not in some emotional turmoil, will ignore that thought, which is a suicide murdering spirit. And there are many others, including unbelief, which is a spirit. These things are what have to bow the knee too, when He said every knee would bow. Thoughts are seeds that produce fruit, the fruit of the womb, which is the carnal mind in man, because it reproduces whatever seed is planted in it, just as woman's womb does.

This is why we are told to take every thought captivity to the mind of Christ, because it's much easier to deal with it at seed stage, than it is at fruit stage and why the FIRST article of our armor is the HELMET of salvation, because our mind is where the initial battleground is.

This is why Yeshua rebuked Satan in Peter, because Peter had heard a thought that was contrary to what Christ had said, and had accepted that thought, and the fruit then had a legal right to set up housekeeping in Peter, essentially making him a time share condo, which is what they do. See, Satan can only do what the spiritual law allows, and he knows the Word better than Christians, and so uses it against them to his advantage. Peace
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:39 PM
 
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All religious experiences are subjective experiences with no external verification. All of them. Without exception . Even what a person may think is an internal witness is merely another subjective experience .
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