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Old 04-04-2016, 09:11 PM
 
8,695 posts, read 11,934,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
I want to apologize to you for my brief reply to this previously. After re-reading this, I think we had a misunderstanding on my part. If you are telling me by this that you HAVE the same Spirit (not just believe in it), then I believe you because no man can say He lives in his flesh except through the power of the Holy Ghost...
I believe in One God. But I don't share you Christian beliefs. I don't think Christianity is very biblical. The message of the Bible is love for each other.

But I also don't consider the Bible to be any kind of special revelation from God. And nothing in the Bible makes any claim to being such.
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:36 AM
 
37,615 posts, read 25,318,615 times
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Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
All religious experiences are subjective experiences with no external verification. All of them. Without exception . Even what a person may think is an internal witness is merely another subjective experience .
Why don't you give us an example of a non-subjective experience, wallflash, since you seem to imply there IS such a thing.
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Old 04-07-2016, 05:29 AM
 
34,856 posts, read 9,002,086 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Why don't you give us an example of a non-subjective experience, wallflash, since you seem to imply there IS such a thing.
Wrong on two counts, Mystic. First he is saying that the religious experience is as subjective as any other, and religious belief much more so, and second, because 'subjective' covers a lot of ground, from some input we get and can be verified, through input we get and cannot be verified, to input we get and reject the verification in favour of what we want to believe.
Your handling of the 'subjectivity' argument is an example of that. right from our first debate (remember the Matrix -Plantinga thread?). You dismissed the corpus of validated data in favour of the weary old theist 'unreliable human perception' ploy. That is essentially what you are still doing, by insisting that religious feelings be taken at face value and research that suggests it is simply misinterpreted is brushed away.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:05 AM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,802,789 times
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
I believe in One God. But I don't share you Christian beliefs. I don't think Christianity is very biblical. The message of the Bible is love for each other.

But I also don't consider the Bible to be any kind of special revelation from God. And nothing in the Bible makes any claim to being such.

That's too bad. The devils believe too and tremble. I don't think Christianity is very biblical, either. On that we agree. About the only thing they all agree on is His name, and they can't even agree on the correct one. That right there, should tell anyone there's a problem in the camp.


Well, it is. You just haven't dug deep enough to know that yet. That last sentence is just not true. Peace
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:10 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,473,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Why don't you give us an example of a non-subjective experience, wallflash, since you seem to imply there IS such a thing.



Nowhere do I imply there is such a thing . I merely point out that there is no religious or spiritual experience that is not a subjective one . A belief in the existence of a non subjective experience is not needed .


You may pull your panties out of a wad now.
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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Interesting that the writer should see atheism as a faith. That's like saying not believing in Bigfoot, is about faith.
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:14 PM
 
8,695 posts, read 11,934,574 times
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
That's too bad. The devils believe too and tremble. I don't think Christianity is very biblical, either. On that we agree. About the only thing they all agree on is His name, and they can't even agree on the correct one. That right there, should tell anyone there's a problem in the camp.


Well, it is. You just haven't dug deep enough to know that yet. That last sentence is just not true. Peace
Just as a person cannot see his hand in front of his face if he is in too much darkness, no one can see the truth spelled out in plain language. That verse is practically a condemnation of the whole belief/faith element that you are trying to promote to me. The rest of the passage is about *works* and how faith itself is dead without works. That means you can have faith to move a mountain, and your faith would still be useless and dead without love. Spiritually dead.

So in the end, all that matters is love shown by our works. The faith in Christ that even the demons have is useless.
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:03 PM
 
37,615 posts, read 25,318,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Just as a person cannot see his hand in front of his face if he is in too much darkness, no one can see the truth spelled out in plain language. That verse is practically a condemnation of the whole belief/faith element that you are trying to promote to me. The rest of the passage is about *works* and how faith itself is dead without works. That means you can have faith to move a mountain, and your faith would still be useless and dead without love. Spiritually dead.
So in the end, all that matters is love shown by our works. The faith in Christ that even the demons have is useless.
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:32 PM
 
9,169 posts, read 2,802,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Just as a person cannot see his hand in front of his face if he is in too much darkness, no one can see the truth spelled out in plain language. That verse is practically a condemnation of the whole belief/faith element that you are trying to promote to me. The rest of the passage is about *works* and how faith itself is dead without works. That means you can have faith to move a mountain, and your faith would still be useless and dead without love. Spiritually dead.

So in the end, all that matters is love shown by our works. The faith in Christ that even the demons have is useless.

No, my point remains. You said you believe in G-d, which is not the same thing as HAVING G-d's Spirit in your heart, which is the same as the devils faith. And just as faith without works is dead, so too is the reverse, works without faith (SAVING faith) is also dead, or death producing.

Which means you can think what you're doing is HIS love, but without the Spirit in your heart, you have no idea what He wants you do, and that includes love. What many call love. is, in fact, lawlessness dressed up to go to town and be a harlot, joining itself to any unclean thing in the name of "love". Peace
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